Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Trolbri 12-03-07, 03:24 AM	I have a feral barbarian and has now 2 claw attacks. Do I have to take the improved unarmed attack feat to get the improved trip feat? Can the claw attacks do as an preq to improved trip instead of improved unarmed attack?
zeratulcraft 12-03-07, 03:27 AM	IMPROVED TRIP [GENERAL] Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise. Benefit: You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when you attempt to trip an opponent while you are unarmed. You also gain a +4 bonus on your Strength check to trip your opponent. If you trip an opponent in melee combat, you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt. Normal: Without this feat, you provoke an attack of opportunity when you attempt to trip an opponent while you are unarmed. Special: At 6th level, a monk may select Improved Trip as a bonus feat, even if she does not have the prerequisites. A fighter may select Improved Trip as one of his fighter bonus feats. Does not require Improved Unarmed Strike.
Trolbri 12-03-07, 03:32 AM	sorry, missed that part.:) let me try with the same question with improved grapple instead of improved trip?
strenoth 12-03-07, 03:37 AM	If you go by the 3.0 Sowrd & fist, then yes. Otherwise, by 3.5 RAW, no. personally, i find it acceptable to use the F&S ruling for feats that do NOT build on an unarmed strike (ie, you can take Improved grapple or deflect arrows, but not Superior Unarmed Strike or Snap Kick), but there is an avantage to IUS anyway, it lets you take Superior Unarmed strike, and if you fight with yoru claws anyway, you could now do a Full Attack routine with unarmed strikes followed by your claws as secondary weapons. 1 or 2 feats will reduce or eliminate the secondary weapon penalties for natural weapons. That's a lot of attacks :)
runestar 12-03-07, 07:49 AM	let me try with the same question with improved grapple instead of improved trip? There are precedents in the MM. For example, the barbed devil has the improved grapple feat despite not having IUS as a prereq feat. I would allow it.:)
Tordak 12-03-07, 08:28 AM	You can't, and this has also been clarified in the Rules of the Games : All about unarmed attacks. Having natural weapons does not qualify you for feat requiring improved unarmed strikes, and having improved unarmed strikes does not qualify you for feat requiring natural weapons. The barbed devil stated above is the only exception I can think of in the 3.5 ed., and personnaly think it might have been a mistakes from the creator (specially since the writter of Rules of the Games was one of the writters of the MM). Personally, knowing how to use your unarmed strikes and knowing how to use your natural weapons are very different, and I would keep improved unarmed strikes as a prerequisite for improve grapple. Most creatures (think about animals for example) would fight very inefficiently trying to refrain from using their natural weapons. They can still attack using their natural weapons when grappling.
jaelis 12-03-07, 09:09 AM	I would allow Improved Grab to serve as a prereq for Imp. Grapple, but not just any natural weapon. (The barbed devil has Imp Grab. The bebilith doesn't.)