Natural Spell as Metamagic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Natural Spell as Metamagic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ClementWillowbreaker
03-25-07, 05:12 PM So yeah, everyone like arguing about Natural Spell. Currently, it is the only feat that druids take at lvl6 (unless they are a MoMF). So instead of an endless thread arguing about whether or not that is a bad design, I have a different question. Assuming your DM changed Natural Spell to be a metamagic feat, would you still always take it/never take it...

1) If it was +0 level, but any spell prepared as Natural can only be cast in Wild Shape, or...

2) It was +1 level metamagic, and otherwise worked as it does now.
PhaedrusXY
03-25-07, 05:28 PM Always to both, unless I wanted to play something a bit different, like a druid who focuses on mounted combat, instead of wild shaping. I wouldn't apply it to every spell, however.
Mystyc
03-25-07, 10:50 PM I don't think I would take the first one unless I were planning to be shaped all the time. The second one I would certainly take unless I had a specific build in mind that needed the feat (or was uninterested in the wild shape ability of the class).
ClementWillowbreaker
03-25-07, 11:36 PM Keep in mind that by lvl7, a druid can be Wild-shaped all day (except for 3 hours in his sleep, which goes away in one more level). So the assumption is that druids would only leave their uber-bear form when they really needed opposable thumbs (and couldn't sneak a chimpanzee past their DM) or to talk to someone. For gameplay, that is essentially, "never when it matters except for surprise attacks, which are totally DM-variable and affect the game at deeper levels if it becomes the standard".

So I guess that makes two people willing to pay either restriction if need be. Goodie. More options are totally welcome.
Karzach
03-26-07, 12:58 PM Considering the claims of the infamous "Bearstroyer" I would bump that spell level adjustment to a 3, but allow it to be cast in or out of wildshape. Of course, casting it out of wildshape wastes the spell slot, more or less.
navar100
03-26-07, 09:34 PM Keep in mind that by lvl7, a druid can be Wild-shaped all day (except for 3 hours in his sleep, which goes away in one more level). So the assumption is that druids would only leave their uber-bear form when they really needed opposable thumbs (and couldn't sneak a chimpanzee past their DM) or to talk to someone. For gameplay, that is essentially, "never when it matters except for surprise attacks, which are totally DM-variable and affect the game at deeper levels if it becomes the standard".

So I guess that makes two people willing to pay either restriction if need be. Goodie. More options are totally welcome.

"Can be", maybe, but is it practical? How are you going to communicate with your party members? How are you going to communicate with NPCs? Sure, being a dire bear will be wonderful for the druid who likes to go hand to paw against bad guys but spend the entire day as a dire bear? I don't think Speak Bear is a viable language choice your party members are going to invest in for their language slots at 1st level.

In any case, as for the OP, I'm not opposed to the idea of making it a metamagic feat. I'm ok with the Feat as is, but even ignoring assumed brokenness of it, I see logic in the idea.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ClementWillowbreaker 03-25-07, 05:12 PM	So yeah, everyone like arguing about Natural Spell. Currently, it is the only feat that druids take at lvl6 (unless they are a MoMF). So instead of an endless thread arguing about whether or not that is a bad design, I have a different question. Assuming your DM changed Natural Spell to be a metamagic feat, would you still always take it/never take it... 1) If it was +0 level, but any spell prepared as Natural can only be cast in Wild Shape, or... 2) It was +1 level metamagic, and otherwise worked as it does now.
PhaedrusXY 03-25-07, 05:28 PM	Always to both, unless I wanted to play something a bit different, like a druid who focuses on mounted combat, instead of wild shaping. I wouldn't apply it to every spell, however.
Mystyc 03-25-07, 10:50 PM	I don't think I would take the first one unless I were planning to be shaped all the time. The second one I would certainly take unless I had a specific build in mind that needed the feat (or was uninterested in the wild shape ability of the class).
ClementWillowbreaker 03-25-07, 11:36 PM	Keep in mind that by lvl7, a druid can be Wild-shaped all day (except for 3 hours in his sleep, which goes away in one more level). So the assumption is that druids would only leave their uber-bear form when they really needed opposable thumbs (and couldn't sneak a chimpanzee past their DM) or to talk to someone. For gameplay, that is essentially, "never when it matters except for surprise attacks, which are totally DM-variable and affect the game at deeper levels if it becomes the standard". So I guess that makes two people willing to pay either restriction if need be. Goodie. More options are totally welcome.
Karzach 03-26-07, 12:58 PM	Considering the claims of the infamous "Bearstroyer" I would bump that spell level adjustment to a 3, but allow it to be cast in or out of wildshape. Of course, casting it out of wildshape wastes the spell slot, more or less.
navar100 03-26-07, 09:34 PM	Keep in mind that by lvl7, a druid can be Wild-shaped all day (except for 3 hours in his sleep, which goes away in one more level). So the assumption is that druids would only leave their uber-bear form when they really needed opposable thumbs (and couldn't sneak a chimpanzee past their DM) or to talk to someone. For gameplay, that is essentially, "never when it matters except for surprise attacks, which are totally DM-variable and affect the game at deeper levels if it becomes the standard". So I guess that makes two people willing to pay either restriction if need be. Goodie. More options are totally welcome. "Can be", maybe, but is it practical? How are you going to communicate with your party members? How are you going to communicate with NPCs? Sure, being a dire bear will be wonderful for the druid who likes to go hand to paw against bad guys but spend the entire day as a dire bear? I don't think Speak Bear is a viable language choice your party members are going to invest in for their language slots at 1st level. In any case, as for the OP, I'm not opposed to the idea of making it a metamagic feat. I'm ok with the Feat as is, but even ignoring assumed brokenness of it, I see logic in the idea.