Natural Weapons and Arcane Strike [Archive] - Wizards Community

Natural Weapons and Arcane Strike [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Spikes01k
08-13-07, 12:34 PM I was wondering if people could clarify if natural weapons and arcane strike. It is my understanding that arcane strike if applied to claws, would apply to all claws, or fists, but all fists. So if you have two claw attacks and a level 1 spell slot then you would get +1 bonus to hit and +1d4 damage to BOTH claws.

Am I correct?
tarkin
08-13-07, 02:43 PM The effect is poorly described with an example that appears to contradict the wording.

It desperately needs errata or FAQ to clear up what happens.

The main problem is that some people read the words " gain a bonus on all your attack rolls" as referring to both the bonus to hit and the bonus to damage. But while it can be read that way, another perfectly legal way to read it is that the bonus to hit applies to all attacks while the bonus to damage can only be used once.

The example they give clearly uses the second interpretation - a bonus to hit to all attacks, but a one shot bonus to just a single weapon/attack.

If you are a creature with a LOT of attacks, usually you pay for this by having them all do less damage.

So a creature witha lot of attacks would get a HUGE benefit from reading it the first way. Some would call this huge bonus abusive.

I read it the second way, to avoid the issue, and follow the example in the book.
Twylyght
08-13-07, 04:04 PM Hmmm strictly as written, it list one of the options to apply the feat to is "natural weapons", thats plainly plural, so it would seem that one application would apply to all your natural weapons.

I agree with tarkin on the aspect that the feat is kinda porly written leading to multiple ways to conclude on how to handle the damage bonus aspect of the feat. And could use a errata to clear up the feats details.

I am however inclined to lean the other way. I think the damage bonus would apply to all attacks made with with the affected weapon(s). I dont otherwise think the trade off is worth the sacrificed spells value. Atleast not after breaking into the middle level and higher spells. Certainly the benefits greatly begin to favor creatures able to make more attacks a round, but global damage bonuses have always done that by default. Even at its highest point with a 9th level spell, it is less powerful than a equal leveled rogue sneak attack, and is limited by your spell slots. Even with the attack roll bonuses, each time you roll an attack is a chance to waste part of the effect, and considering save or die is available by the mid levels, let them play.
Spikes01k
08-13-07, 04:54 PM Hmmm strictly as written, it list one of the options to apply the feat to is "natural weapons", thats plainly plural, so it would seem that one application would apply to all your natural weapons.

I agree with tarkin on the aspect that the feat is kinda porly written leading to multiple ways to conclude on how to handle the damage bonus aspect of the feat. And could use a errata to clear up the feats details.

I am however inclined to lean the other way. I think the damage bonus would apply to all attacks made with with the affected weapon(s). I dont otherwise think the trade off is worth the sacrificed spells value. Atleast not after breaking into the middle level and higher spells. Certainly the benefits greatly begin to favor creatures able to make more attacks a round, but global damage bonuses have always done that by default. Even at its highest point with a 9th level spell, it is less powerful than a equal leveled rogue sneak attack, and is limited by your spell slots. Even with the attack roll bonuses, each time you roll an attack is a chance to waste part of the effect, and considering save or die is available by the mid levels, let them play.

Well I just called WoTC and they stated that it would apply to all natural attacks. So you are correct, and I agree with your statement.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Spikes01k 08-13-07, 12:34 PM	I was wondering if people could clarify if natural weapons and arcane strike. It is my understanding that arcane strike if applied to claws, would apply to all claws, or fists, but all fists. So if you have two claw attacks and a level 1 spell slot then you would get +1 bonus to hit and +1d4 damage to BOTH claws. Am I correct?
tarkin 08-13-07, 02:43 PM	The effect is poorly described with an example that appears to contradict the wording. It desperately needs errata or FAQ to clear up what happens. The main problem is that some people read the words " gain a bonus on all your attack rolls" as referring to both the bonus to hit and the bonus to damage. But while it can be read that way, another perfectly legal way to read it is that the bonus to hit applies to all attacks while the bonus to damage can only be used once. The example they give clearly uses the second interpretation - a bonus to hit to all attacks, but a one shot bonus to just a single weapon/attack. If you are a creature with a LOT of attacks, usually you pay for this by having them all do less damage. So a creature witha lot of attacks would get a HUGE benefit from reading it the first way. Some would call this huge bonus abusive. I read it the second way, to avoid the issue, and follow the example in the book.
Twylyght 08-13-07, 04:04 PM	Hmmm strictly as written, it list one of the options to apply the feat to is "natural weapons", thats plainly plural, so it would seem that one application would apply to all your natural weapons. I agree with tarkin on the aspect that the feat is kinda porly written leading to multiple ways to conclude on how to handle the damage bonus aspect of the feat. And could use a errata to clear up the feats details. I am however inclined to lean the other way. I think the damage bonus would apply to all attacks made with with the affected weapon(s). I dont otherwise think the trade off is worth the sacrificed spells value. Atleast not after breaking into the middle level and higher spells. Certainly the benefits greatly begin to favor creatures able to make more attacks a round, but global damage bonuses have always done that by default. Even at its highest point with a 9th level spell, it is less powerful than a equal leveled rogue sneak attack, and is limited by your spell slots. Even with the attack roll bonuses, each time you roll an attack is a chance to waste part of the effect, and considering save or die is available by the mid levels, let them play.
Spikes01k 08-13-07, 04:54 PM	Hmmm strictly as written, it list one of the options to apply the feat to is "natural weapons", thats plainly plural, so it would seem that one application would apply to all your natural weapons. I agree with tarkin on the aspect that the feat is kinda porly written leading to multiple ways to conclude on how to handle the damage bonus aspect of the feat. And could use a errata to clear up the feats details. I am however inclined to lean the other way. I think the damage bonus would apply to all attacks made with with the affected weapon(s). I dont otherwise think the trade off is worth the sacrificed spells value. Atleast not after breaking into the middle level and higher spells. Certainly the benefits greatly begin to favor creatures able to make more attacks a round, but global damage bonuses have always done that by default. Even at its highest point with a 9th level spell, it is less powerful than a equal leveled rogue sneak attack, and is limited by your spell slots. Even with the attack roll bonuses, each time you roll an attack is a chance to waste part of the effect, and considering save or die is available by the mid levels, let them play. Well I just called WoTC and they stated that it would apply to all natural attacks. So you are correct, and I agree with your statement.