Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Spikes01k 08-14-07, 01:33 PM	I was wondering some one would please help me with a draconic feat creation that grants natural claw weapons. To start slashing only must be obtained at first level must have dragon blood line, or be draconic creature of some sort. I am looking for it to be progressive eventually granting two full strikes with your natural weapons claws and sharp rest/s. This would only grant two attacks, but at the same damage rate. As an effect the wont be able to deal blunt damage while unarmed, or even nonlethal damage due just not knowing how. Can some one help me with something made along these lines that is balanced?
tarkin 08-14-07, 01:59 PM	Complete Arcane has Draconic Claw feat that grants you a single claw attack and also lets you get a free extra attack as a swift action anytime you cast a spell. I would rule that it takes two feats to get two claw attacks. One attack per feat is pretty standard.
Spikes01k 08-14-07, 02:05 PM	Complete Arcane has Draconic Claw feat that grants you a single claw attack and also lets you get a free extra attack as a swift action anytime you cast a spell. I would rule that it takes two feats to get two claw attacks. One attack per feat is pretty standard. What bout TWF??? Tarkin you have good points, but you don't veer away from obversely under powered feat rhetoric. Maybe something along a "fixed" version of TWF?
Spikes01k 08-14-07, 02:16 PM	Draconic Claws[General] You can fight with your natural claws in each hand. You can make one extra attack each round with the second weapon. The claws do slashing damage. Prerequisite Requirements: Must be taken at level 1. Must be draconic or have the dragon blood line sub type. Str 13 Dex 13. Benefit Benefit: Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons with your claws are reduced. There are no minuses to hit when attacking with both your claws as part of a full round action. Claw damage as per your type of your size. Medium sized humanoids have claws that do 1D3 damage. _________________ Pro's- You get natural weapons with two attacks and no minus to hit. Con's This feat only applies to your natural claw attacks.
tarkin 08-14-07, 02:32 PM	What bout TWF??? Tarkin you have good points, but you don't veer away from obversely under powered feat rhetoric. Maybe something along a "fixed" version of TWF? TWF grants you ONE extra attack per feat. Your BAB is 20. You get four attacks. 20/15/10/5 You take a single feat: TWF, and buy a dagger. You now get five attacks: 18/18/13/8/3 You take ANOTHER feat: ITWF You now get 6 attacks: 18/18/13/13/8/3 You take ANOTHER feat GTWF You now get 7 attacks: 18/18/13/13/8/8/3 Three feats bought you 3 attacks. Same thing with Rapid shot, Rapid Strike and Improved Rapid Strike. Pretty much it is ONE feat = ONE extra attack, until you get to Epic levels.
Spikes01k 08-14-07, 02:35 PM	TWF grants you ONE extra attack per feat. Your BAB is 20. You get four attacks. 20/15/10/5 You take a single feat: TWF, and buy a dagger. You now get five attacks: 18/18/13/8/3 You take ANOTHER feat: ITWF You now get 6 attacks: 18/18/13/13/8/3 You take ANOTHER feat GTWF You now get 7 attacks: 18/18/13/13/8/8/3 Three feats bought you 3 attacks. Same thing with Rapid shot, Rapid Strike and Improved Rapid Strike. Pretty much it is ONE feat = ONE extra attack, until you get to Epic levels. Yes, but you do know that your paying extra for progressively worse abilities. P.S. How about a write up? I see you make a lot of points, but I did ask for a write up if you wouldn't mind.
Cindre2000 08-14-07, 02:55 PM	Draconic Claws You gain claw attacks Prerequisite: Draconic Heritage; this feat may only be taken at 1st level Benefit: You gain two claw attacks. The claws deal slashing damage and are secondary attacks. Size - Damage small - 1d3 medium - 1d4 large - 1d6 Str and Dex prerequisites are silly and don't make sense. And your description does not make much sense.
Spikes01k 08-14-07, 02:58 PM	Draconic Claws You gain claw attacks Prerequisite: Draconic Heritage; this feat may only be taken at 1st level Benefit: You gain two secondary claw attacks. Size - Damage small - 1d3 medium - 1d4 large - 1d6 Alright thats nice and clean, would everyone say that this is balanced?
jaelis 08-14-07, 02:59 PM	Draconic Claws[General] You can fight with your natural claws in each hand. You can make one extra attack each round with the second weapon. The claws do slashing damage. Prerequisite Requirements: Must be taken at level 1. Must be draconic or have the dragon blood line sub type. Str 13 Dex 13. Benefit Benefit: Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons with your claws are reduced. Sense claws are light weapons, there are no minuses to hit with your claws. Claw damage as per your type of your size. Medium sized humanoids have claws that do 1D3 damage. TWF penalties don't apply to natural weapons anyway... this feat doesn't make much sense. Are you after two natural weapon claw attacks, or something else? Something like this? Claw Attack [general] Prereq: whatever. Must have hands, but no claw attacks. Benefit: You gain a claw attack that deals 1d4 damage for medium creatures. It is always treated as a secondary weapon. Special: This feat can be taken one time for each hand that you have. Each time you gain an additional claw attack.
Cindre2000 08-14-07, 03:11 PM	Bah, I see nothing wrong with getting 2 claw attacks with one feat- its only one extra attack.
jaelis 08-14-07, 03:32 PM	Bah, I see nothing wrong with getting 2 claw attacks with one feat- its only one extra attack. Unless you're a monk.
Spikes01k 08-14-07, 03:33 PM	Bah, I see nothing wrong with getting 2 claw attacks with one feat- its only one extra attack. Your note as to secondary attacks is that they both get a -5 to hit, do you mean that one can be used as a secondary weapon, or am I forgetting a rule?
Cindre2000 08-14-07, 03:34 PM	True, I thought about that after posting. But you still get a -5 for seconday attacks, which is why I did not put them down as primary attacks. As I wrote it your claw attacks would be at a -5 penalty and could be used with a primary attack- such as a monks attack or a bite attack. However, by themselves you would get a -5 penalty, or if you used one with a weapon you would get 2 attacks (since one claw is holding a weapon and thus indisposed) for a total of +0 weapon / -5 claw. You can take the feat Multiattack if you had one more natural attack to reduce that penalty to -2.
Spikes01k 08-21-07, 10:19 AM	Wow you guys are WAY too stingy WoTC has already made a feat that can be taken at 1st level and grant a 1d6 natural claw attack! Its in the book of vial darkness called "Deformity (Claw Hands)" which requires willful deformity feat. Seeing how I would qualify a feat of dragonblood subtype and need to be taken at 1st level equal to needing another feat preq. I am open to disagreement points, and suggestions still. With this source and idea on balance I have come up with this feat- Dragon Claws Your draconic nature has given you some innate natural claw attacks. Preequisite: Dragonblood subtype, must be taken at 1st level Benefit: The character has the a set of natural claws that deal 1D6 points of damage as an unarmed claw attack for a medium size humanoid. The character is considered armed even when unarmed. Special: The character does not draw attacks of opportunity when attacking unarmed, and he threatens areas even when unarmed.
Cindre2000 08-21-07, 09:33 PM	You realize that feat grants you a single claw attack, not two...
Spikes01k 08-22-07, 02:41 AM	You realize that feat grants you a single claw attack, not two... Where in the text/rules I just put up does it only grant one attack, not two please. I did make the text very similar. So if this feat grants two so does that feat.
Cindre2000 08-22-07, 08:32 AM	The feat says in the benefits sections that the character gains the ability to deal "1d6 points of damage as an unarmed claw attack". [singular] Only in the flavor section, which does not set down the rules, does it mention that you gain "deformed claws and hands ending in sharp claws". [plural] You gain claws with this feat but it only lets make a single claw attack at a higher than normal damage for your level.
Spikes01k 08-22-07, 09:46 AM	The feat says in the benefits sections that the character gains the ability to deal "1d6 points of damage as an unarmed claw attack". [singular] Only in the flavor section, which does not set down the rules, does it mention that you gain "deformed claws and hands ending in sharp claws". [plural] You gain claws with this feat but it only lets make a single claw attack at a higher than normal damage for your level. OK, how would I get the ability to make two attacks from here then?
Cindre2000 08-22-07, 02:55 PM	You have two options: Option one- Use the feat I posted earlier, and then use a second feat to reduce the penalty to -2. Option two- Use the feat you posted earlier and use TWF to gain a second claw attack. So in the end you get 2 claw attacks with a -2 penalty for two feats; or you just spend one feat and get a single claw attack at no penalty or two claw attacks at a -5 penalty. The only way around this is to be half-dragon
Spikes01k 08-22-07, 04:00 PM	You have two options: Option one- Use the feat I posted earlier, and then use a second feat to reduce the penalty to -2. Option two- Use the feat you posted earlier and use TWF to gain a second claw attack. So in the end you get 2 claw attacks with a -2 penalty for two feats; or you just spend one feat and get a single claw attack at no penalty or two claw attacks at a -5 penalty. The only way around this is to be half-dragon Or a draconic creature, or pick up the feral template, ect.
Kaladon7779 08-22-07, 04:00 PM	With Claws as a natural attack you always get two if used as your primary attack. But no matter what your BaB is you will never have more then two. Now your DM could create a feat that gives you a third claw attack like Tarkin was getting at. But I would treat it like Second Slam feat for warforged. BaB of +6 requirement and whenever you make a claw attack you get a second claw attack at a -5.
Spikes01k 08-22-07, 04:01 PM	With Claws as a natural attack you always get two if used as your primary attack. But no matter what your BaB is you will never have more then two. Now your DM could create a feat that gives you a third claw attack like Tarkin was getting at. But I would treat it like Second Slam feat for warforged. BaB of +6 requirement and whenever you make a claw attack you get a second claw attack at a -5. That is what I thought, that is what was confusing me, thank you!
natzero 08-22-07, 04:21 PM	dragonic template gives claw 1d3 - 1d4 i believe. or play a kobold heh one of the wizards pages: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a Natural Weapons: Kobolds have two primary claw attacks that deal 1d3 points of slashing damage plus Strength bonus, and a secondary bite attack that deals 1d3 points of piercing damage plus 1/2 Strength bonus. Despite possibly being the weakest reptilian humanoid, kobolds retain a connection to their feral nature.
Cindre2000 08-24-07, 07:18 AM	With Claws as a natural attack you always get two if used as your primary attack. But no matter what your BaB is you will never have more then two. Now your DM could create a feat that gives you a third claw attack like Tarkin was getting at. But I would treat it like Second Slam feat for warforged. BaB of +6 requirement and whenever you make a claw attack you get a second claw attack at a -5. Actually, you only get two if it states you get two. Otherwise you get one claw attack. Rapid strike is an easy way to get another claw attack.
Spikes01k 08-24-07, 09:37 AM	With Claws as a natural attack you always get two if used as your primary attack. But no matter what your BaB is you will never have more then two. Now your DM could create a feat that gives you a third claw attack like Tarkin was getting at. But I would treat it like Second Slam feat for warforged. BaB of +6 requirement and whenever you make a claw attack you get a second claw attack at a -5. Kaladon Looks like your going to need to cite/quote your source. Can you please? This should help. http://www.d20srd.org/
Spikes01k 08-24-07, 11:39 AM	Natural Weapons Creatures do not receive additional attacks from a high base attack bonus when using natural weapons. The number of attacks a creature can make with its natural weapons depends on the type of the attack—generally, a creature can make one bite attack, one attack per claw or tentacle, one gore attack, one sting attack, or one slam attack (although Large creatures with arms or arm-like limbs can make a slam attack with each arm). Refer to the individual monster descriptions. Source (http://forums.gleemax.com/leaving.php?destination=http://www.d20srd.org/) Sense they don't say specifically that these are different from normal claws it is safe to say that it is ment for you to get two natural claw attacks. So yeah with the feat they already printed you all seemed to have to say the least a much higher value on natural claws than WoTC does. My feat stands, unless you don't think theirs enough bonuses, as WoTC balanced equivalent.
Cindre2000 08-24-07, 12:25 PM	Except that the feat in question still requires a "filler" feat that provides you with almost no benefit. So your single feat is giving you the equivalence of two feats.
Silvercrys 08-24-07, 12:56 PM	And the text you quoted says Natural Weapons Creatures do not receive additional attacks from a high base attack bonus when using natural weapons. The number of attacks a creature can make with its natural weapons depends on the type of the attack - generally, a creature can make one bite attack, one attack per claw or tentacle, one gore attack, one sting attack, or one slam attack (although Large creatures with arms or arm-like limbs can make a slam attack with each arm). Refer to the individual monster descriptions. Bold emphasis yours, Bold Italic emphasis mine. It says 'generally', so you can't make it the absolute rule.
Cindre2000 08-24-07, 01:56 PM	It can be argued either way, however, you cannot argue that the damage is 1 step higher than a normal claw attack, and that it does have a "filler" feat as a prerequisite.
Spikes01k 08-24-07, 04:13 PM	I called WoTC and the feat I based mine off of. Basically they said the feat grants a weapons, not a natural weapon, that they are proficient with and can't be disarmed from. So yeah natural weapons are as of yet not perches-able.