Post/Author/DateTime	Post
iakob2 05-06-07, 03:41 AM	Hi I cannot find any rules stating how far a human (or others without darkvision and lowlight vision) may see in the evening/dusk/starry night. I have allready figured out a spot DC to notice that some of the goblins from Scourge of the howling horde are evacuating the youngsters and the old from the caverns - during the night while a fight is going on. But I need to figure out *if* the humans in the party will be able to see them at all. Any help is appreciated.
Crichton 05-06-07, 03:46 AM	Lowlight vision is listed, it is also said to be double the normal vision. Divide by two. I think it's 120/2. People without darkvision can't see in the dark at all. And people with darkvision and no lowlight vision can see 60 ft like everyone else.
Xeviat-DM 05-06-07, 04:27 AM	This is why I think "shadowy illumination" needs to have a Spot penalty applied to it. I'm going to go out on a limb and say -10. Then, you can use the -1 spot per 10 feet rule to determine how far a normal human can see good detail. A medium sized object, unmoving and not trying to hide, will be a DC 0 spot check. At 100 feet, the DC is now 10, and thus will still be visible on average. At 200 feet, the DC is now 20; it can be seen, but only with scruteny or luck. At 210 feet, the DC is now 21, and impossible to be seen by the average human. Or, because my -10 spot check penalty is too flat (it only reduces vision by 100 feet, no matter how far your vision is), simply double all Spot DCs in shadowy illumination.
iakob2 05-07-07, 06:28 AM	Thanks for the answers. I ended up making it imposible for the humans to see anything beyond 10 feet. The moon were out, but the PC's were in a forrest with light undergrowth which made it very difficult to spot the small sized goblins who in turn had darkvision (as did the PC halforc cleric). And because of the trees there were not much light where the PC camped. In the second round of combat, the human wizard lit a torch and that made it easier to see for all.