Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Quijenoth 02-01-08, 07:09 AM	I was starting a new game and a player was interested in the berserker strength alternate class feature from PHB II. while more useful it doesn't work all that well for a multi-class barbarian. So i decided to give him the option to take the following feat and have shared it here for those who like the idea of it. BERSERKER BORN Your talent for raging extends beyond your training. Prerequisite: Berserker Strength ability. Benefit: Your effective barbarian level when determining when you enter rage with the berserker strength ability increases by 4. This benefit can't increase your effective barbarian level above your Hit Dice. However, you gain an increase up to your total Hit Dice even if it is less than 4. For example; a 3rd level barbarian/2nd level rogue who selects this feat will enter a rage when his hit points fall below 25 (5 x (3 + 2)). When he gains a level in rogue (becoming a 3rd level barbarian/3rd level rogue) he enters a rage when his hit points fall below 30. The increase in effective barbarian level provided by this feat does not effect the improvement to your rage provided by the berserker strength ability. A 9th level barbarian/2nd level rogue would not gain the increase to strength, saves and damage reduction gained by an 11th level barbarian by virtue of this feat. Hope you find the feat useful ;)
Spikes01k 02-01-08, 10:26 AM	Barbarian is powerful enough as it is. I don't think this should be allowed.
Silvercrys 02-01-08, 10:40 AM	It's not stacking with Barbarian for improving Rage or anything. It doesn't actually provide any true benefit, except that it increases the threshold for activating Berserker Rage. Looks fine to me. It may even be a little on the weak side, in my opinion. Maybe give some other small benefit, like... I don't know. +2 to Intimidate checks while in Berserker Strength?
Quijenoth 02-01-08, 10:58 AM	Barbarian is powerful enough as it is. I don't think this should be allowed. you really think so? I didn't think it was much more powerful than a 1st level barbarian using the traditional rage and taking extra rage feat at first level giving him 3 chances to rage per day. The traditional rage grants a bonus to CON while berserker strength gives only DR 2/- it seemed less potant. considering a 1 barbarian/10 rogue would gain CON bonus x 11 hit points every time he rages while the same character with berserker strength would still only rage when his hit points dropped to 5 it seemed less favorable to multiclassing (and less abusive).
Obsidianjaerc 02-01-08, 11:19 AM	Less powerful than multiclassing. I see no flaws with this feat though I rather don't care for the name. It's really not that attractive as a feat--though.
Norr 02-01-08, 11:54 AM	Barbarian is powerful enough as it is. I don't think this should be allowed. The point is to make the 'berserker strength' alternative class feature useful to multiclass barbarians. You are likely thinking about Rage, which can be used whenever you want. 'Berserker strength' is a state similar to rage that the barbarian enters automatically when he goes below 5hp/barbarian level. Thus, a 5th level Barb is liekly to have 32 hp and enters 'Berserker strength' when going under 25 hp and losing this state when going over 25 hp (by healing etc). A Barbarian 2/fighter 3 would have 29 hp and activate 'Berserker strength' when under 10 hp, dangerously low for a 5th level character. Therefore a 'Berserker strength' alternative class feature Barbarian should never multiclass if he wants to keep his only major class feature useful to any degree. This feat helps with that somewhat in the same sense that 'practiced caster' helps multiclass spellcasters. Therefore I think this feat is valid.
mplindustries 02-01-08, 12:48 PM	I was starting a new game and a player was interested in the berserker strength alternate class feature from PHB II. while more useful it doesn't work all that well for a multi-class barbarian. So i decided to give him the option to take the following feat and have shared it here for those who like the idea of it. BERSERKER BORN Your talent for raging extends beyond your training. Prerequisite: Berserker Strength ability. Benefit: Your effective barbarian level when determining when you enter rage with the berserker strength ability increases by 4. This benefit can't increase your effective barbarian level above your Hit Dice. However, you gain an increase up to your total Hit Dice even if it is less than 4. For example; a 3rd level barbarian/2nd level rogue who selects this feat will enter a rage when his hit points fall below 25 (5 x (3 + 2)). When he gains a level in rogue (becoming a 3rd level barbarian/3rd level rogue) he enters a rage when his hit points fall below 30. The increase in effective barbarian level provided by this feat does not effect the improvement to your rage provided by the berserker strength ability. A 9th level barbarian/2nd level rogue would not gain the increase to strength, saves and damage reduction gained by an 11th level barbarian by virtue of this feat. Hope you find the feat useful ;) It seems really weak. Perhaps instead of adding 4 to your effective barbarian level, why not just allow Berserker Rage to trigger when you fall below 5 x (Barbarian + One Other Class of Your Choice levels) rather than just Barbarian? Then it sort of functions like knight training.
Quijenoth 02-01-08, 01:02 PM	It seems really weak. Perhaps instead of adding 4 to your effective barbarian level, why not just allow Berserker Rage to trigger when you fall below 5 x (Barbarian + One Other Class of Your Choice levels) rather than just Barbarian? Then it sort of functions like knight training. Could technically be abused this way - for example a 1 barbarian/8 wizard with +0 CON mod would have a maximum possible hit point total of 44 and a berserker strength that activates when his hit points drop below 45! I like the idea of providing the intimidate modifier although perhaps something similar to intimidating rage (complete warrior) would be more in character? Regarding the name has anyone got any more interesting suggestions? My original name was Practiced Berserker since thats the feat it mimics, but that sounded worse than Berserker Born.
GuyrtheadamantineOne 02-01-08, 01:09 PM	Could technically be abused this way - for example a 1 barbarian/8 wizard with +0 CON mod would have a maximum possible hit point total of 44 and a berserker strength that activates when his hit points drop below 45! Result: A wizard that is unable to cast any spell!
Quijenoth 02-01-08, 01:17 PM	hehe true but i was only using it as a hit point reference. if you go average on hit points with most classes of d6 or d4 you would very soon be raging all the time. even with d8 if you roll poorly and have a low CON you can gain the benefit of +4 str DR 2/- and +2 saves for most of your life.
mplindustries 02-01-08, 01:19 PM	Could technically be abused this way - for example a 1 barbarian/8 wizard with +0 CON mod would have a maximum possible hit point total of 44 and a berserker strength that activates when his hit points drop below 45! I like the idea of providing the intimidate modifier although perhaps something similar to intimidating rage (complete warrior) would be more in character? Regarding the name has anyone got any more interesting suggestions? My original name was Practiced Berserker since thats the feat it mimics, but that sounded worse than Berserker Born. Result: A wizard that is unable to cast any spell! Precisely. Not to mention a 9th level primary melee fighter without his second iterative attack. Berserker Strength is pretty much always weaker than any other Rage variants I've seen (including normal rage). That combined with the fact that it reduces annoying and counterintuitive resource management (oh, I'm sorry guys, I as already really angry this morning. I'm emotionally burned out right now) I think it deserves a bump in power.
aelryinth 02-01-08, 01:24 PM	I would turn this on its head and make berserker strength more useful. When you are DOWN TO 5hpx level makes you extremely vulnerable. Instead, reverse it to have taken dmg = 5x level. This will both trigger quicker, and sooner, and leave you in a much less vulnerable position. ===Aelryinth
Quijenoth 02-01-08, 01:41 PM	Precisely. Not to mention a 9th level primary melee fighter without his second iterative attack. not sure what a fighter would lose from raging to be honest? why wouldn't he get his extra attacks? perhaps this feat does need a little extra to make it more appealing to barbarians? and perhaps the points outlined are the place to look. we could say the feat removes the restriction on using charisma- dexterity- and intelligence- based skills in favor of a small penalty, say -2? I still think the prevention of casting spells and certain feats needs to remain though. regarding the take damage method I would hate to be a DM trying to keep track of how much damage a barbarian has taken in a fight when hes getting DR, under the effect of fast healing and being topped up with healing spells and potions.
Spikes01k 02-01-08, 07:09 PM	you really think so? I didn't think it was much more powerful than a 1st level barbarian using the traditional rage and taking extra rage feat at first level giving him 3 chances to rage per day. The traditional rage grants a bonus to CON while berserker strength gives only DR 2/- it seemed less potant. considering a 1 barbarian/10 rogue would gain CON bonus x 11 hit points every time he rages while the same character with berserker strength would still only rage when his hit points dropped to 5 it seemed less favorable to multiclassing (and less abusive). Yes, there are already plenty of nice rage feats as there is to help out. Maybe I am missing something here about the berserker's abilities, but if it is equally as powerful as the normal rage, then it should be fine as is. If it doesn't work with the normal feats then there is a reason for that, and changing things might cause balance problems.
Quijenoth 02-02-08, 06:40 AM	Yes, there are already plenty of nice rage feats as there is to help out. Maybe I am missing something here about the berserker's abilities, but if it is equally as powerful as the normal rage, then it should be fine as is. If it doesn't work with the normal feats then there is a reason for that, and changing things might cause balance problems. berserker strength doesn't work like normal rage, it activates automatically and lasts until your healed, you cant voluntarily end the rage either. feats like extra rage, extend rage, and instantaneous rage cannot be used with berserker strength since they work in different ways, feats like destructive rage and intimidating rage can be used if your DM allows you to meet the rage prerequisite. The reason there is no feats is because the berserker strength alternate ability was printed in the PHB 2 while all the rage feats where released a few years before that. A lot of the alternate class features presented in the PHB 2 could benefit with some feat attention in my opinion, it would help to make them more appealing to the players who prefer the traditional abilities because of the feats that supplement them.
runestar 02-02-08, 07:55 AM	To be honest, I would just houserule berserker rage to work automatically whenever you fall below 1/2 your hp.:P I can understand the intention to discourage 1-dips (which was what the original barb basically amounted to) though.
Silvercrys 02-13-08, 10:58 PM	I would turn this on its head and make berserker strength more useful. When you are DOWN TO 5hpx level makes you extremely vulnerable. Instead, reverse it to have taken dmg = 5x level. This will both trigger quicker, and sooner, and leave you in a much less vulnerable position. ===Aelryinth Doesn't this make it most useful as a 1-level dip then? I think I would rather have it trigger at damage taken = 5 and have, say, 19 Warblade levels than have it trigger at damage taken = 100. Especially if I multiclass into, say, Rogue (not very good thematically I know, but still). Damage taken = 100 is likely to be more hitpoints than I have (unless I have a good con score.)