Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Spikes01k 03-30-07, 05:14 PM	Optimized Build These rare individuals of a race which are just built more on the strong side. Although they can act in many ways as if they were one size large, they are naturally not as dexterous. Unfortunately many children with this natural ability don't make it adulthood due to being too clumsy and easy to hit. Prerequisites: Str 15 and Dex 13 (before the feat adjustments). Special Prerequisites: Must be taken as a first level, without the aid of magical items. If any flaw is taken this feat becomes useless. Effect: -2 Dex, height is improved by 1d3 inches, but this can not increase their actual size category. Benefit: The physical stature of the character lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger; but like powerful build they are only treated as one size large when dealing with large weapons, when determining immunity to special abilities, and (eventually) with opposed size rolls. At 1 hit die the character can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. A character is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. The benefits of this feat stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category, but not with the feat monkey grip, powerful build obtained by other manors, and other feats that allow using larger weapons; although the ability to use large weapons does not stack with optimized build they do gain the other bonuses. Greater Optimized Build Prerequisites: Optimized Build, 5 hit die. Whenever the character is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trips), the character is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. Optimal build should be treated as powerful build from here on and be treated as monkey grip when meeting the prerequisites for feats and prestige classes. At 21 hit die the player does not need to meet the requirements for strength for the "Weild Oversized Weapon" epic feat. The benefits of this feat stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category, but not with the feat monkey grip, powerful build obtained by other manors, and other feats that allow using larger weapons.
Razorgrin 03-30-07, 05:23 PM	Sooo...you're making powerful build into a feat? Given that that trait tends to get you a level adjustment, it's little overpowered. The old rule of thumb applies here: if your feat choice is a no-brainer (this is clearly better than nearly any other 1st-level feat), it's too good. Also, unless you're playing in a very unusual campaign, you can probably omit the clause about magical items not allowing you to qualify. ~200gp isn't enough to afford an item that grants constant stat bonuses.
tarkin 03-30-07, 05:28 PM	Give it Monkey Grip as a pre-req, adjust the wording so that it is clear that the benefits of the feat replace monkey grip instead of stacking with it, and require that they do not get ANY flaws, not just "can not be obtained with a flaw".
Spikes01k 03-30-07, 05:40 PM	Give it Monkey Grip as a pre-req, adjust the wording so that it is clear that the benefits of the feat replace monkey grip instead of stacking with it, and require that they do not get ANY flaws, not just "can not be obtained with a flaw". Oh shoot!!! that is a remant from an older version! Thanks I missed that.
Spikes01k 03-30-07, 05:43 PM	Give it Monkey Grip as a pre-req, adjust the wording so that it is clear that the benefits of the feat replace monkey grip instead of stacking with it, and require that they do not get ANY flaws, not just "can not be obtained with a flaw". AAh I don't see where it says they stack?
Perseus_Stoned 03-30-07, 05:46 PM	Special Prerequisites: Must be taken as a first level, and the prerequisites can not be made by obtaining magical items. With this feat they can not obtain flaws. Not to derail the thread, but is this normally possible?
Spikes01k 03-30-07, 05:48 PM	Not to derail the thread, but is this normally possible? Yes you can, it states that you can in the FAQ. It is just that if you lose the item meeting the requirement you can not use the feat any more.
Spikes01k 03-30-07, 05:53 PM	Sooo...you're making powerful build into a feat? Given that that trait tends to get you a level adjustment, it's little overpowered. The old rule of thumb applies here: if your feat choice is a no-brainer (this is clearly better than nearly any other 1st-level feat), it's too good. Also, unless you're playing in a very unusual campaign, you can probably omit the clause about magical items not allowing you to qualify. ~200gp isn't enough to afford an item that grants constant stat bonuses. Your losing your starting feat, and a -2 to dex making most races unbalanced in a negative manor, plus the high stat requirements from the character creation, I'd say it is balanced. Look at this, apply this to a race and see how it compares to other races who spend their first feat else were. Now don't go comparing this to monkey gimp! Mathematically it is a poor stat.
Spikes01k 03-30-07, 06:00 PM	tarkin, Requiring monkey grip might be a good idea and all but then only humans would be able to take it.
Perseus_Stoned 03-30-07, 06:01 PM	Optimized Build These rare individuals of a race which are just built more on the strong side. Although they can act in many ways as if they were one size large, they are naturally not as dexterous. Unfortunately many children with this natural ability don't make it adulthood due to being too clumsy and easy to hit. Prerequisites: Str 15 and Dex 13 (before the feat adjustments). Special Prerequisites: Must be taken as a first level, without the aid of magical items. If any flaw is taken this feat becomes useless. Effect: -2 Dex, height is improved by 1d3 inches Benefit: The physical stature of the character lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger; but like powerful build they are only treated as one size large when dealing with large weapons, when determining immunity to special abilities, and (eventually) with opposed size rolls. At 1 hit die the character can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. A character is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. After obtaining 5 hit die or more whenever the character is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trips), the character is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. Optimal build should be treated as powerful build from here on and be treated as monkey grip when meeting the prerequisites for feats and prestige classes. The benefits of this feat stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category, but not with the feat monkey grip and other feats that allow using larger weapons.
Perseus_Stoned 03-30-07, 06:02 PM	You could require this feat to burn two feats? Or maybe split it in half, with lesser abilities in the first feat (the - to dex and stuff, which would also explain why most don't live long enough to grab their expanded abilities), then the second (requiring 5 HD for a pre-req) having the better abilities.
Spikes01k 03-30-07, 06:07 PM	Optimized Build These rare individuals of a race which are just built more on the strong side. Although they can act in many ways as if they were one size large, they are naturally not as dexterous. Unfortunately many children with this natural ability don't make it adulthood due to being too clumsy and easy to hit. Prerequisites: Str 15 and Dex 13 (before the feat adjustments). Special Prerequisites: Must be taken as a first level, without the aid of magical items. If any flaw is taken this feat becomes useless. Effect: -2 Dex, height is improved by 1d3 inches Benefit: The physical stature of the character lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger; but like powerful build they are only treated as one size large when dealing with large weapons, when determining immunity to special abilities, and (eventually) with opposed size rolls. At 1 hit die the character can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. A character is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. After obtaining 5 hit die or more whenever the character is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trips), the character is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. Optimal build should be treated as powerful build from here on and be treated as monkey grip when meeting the prerequisites for feats and prestige classes. The benefits of this feat stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category, but not with the feat monkey grip and other feats that allow using larger weapons. Ok thanks!
Spikes01k 03-30-07, 06:15 PM	This should be better balanced.
DarkRhystar 03-30-07, 08:55 PM	I would like to renew my disgust with any feat which has a penalty associated with it. All that tells me is that the author knows it's too good to be a feat but is trying to fit it within the power spectrum of a feat anyway. Thumbs down.
Grizzled Gryphon 03-30-07, 09:19 PM	Not to sound like a "power gamer" here, but it seems rather odd that a feat would make it so you can't learn another feat. While I understand why you don't want anyone doing so, I don't see how taking this feat means you are unable to learn how to use larger weapons. I would have this feat take the place of Monkey Grip in your game, if I were you. Just take Monkey Grip right out of the game.
Spikes01k 03-30-07, 09:56 PM	I would like to renew my disgust with any feat which has a penalty associated with it. All that tells me is that the author knows it's too good to be a feat but is trying to fit it within the power spectrum of a feat anyway. Thumbs down. Lets look at things from a race construction stand point. Human +1 feat +4 skills +1 every level -1 feat and -2 dex= optimized build. Take a half orc with this feat -2 int, cha, dex +2 str Dark Vision Optimized Build seems OVERLY balanced. Thank you To be honest it maybe more of a flaw/merit combination.
DM_Areus 04-01-07, 01:03 AM	looks a little broken... Heres my fix on it. Optimized Build These main characters always have the biggest weapon and deal the most damage. They must have the biggest hair in the party, They are naturally on the cover of every final fantasy game ever made. Unfortunately the whole party might take this feat to see who can deal the most damage. Prerequisites: Str 15 and Dex 13 (before the feat adjustments). Special Prerequisites: Must be taken as a first level, without the aid of magical items. If any flaw is taken this feat becomes useless. Effect: -2 Dex, height is improved by 1d3 inches, but this can not increase their actual size category. Hair must be twice the size of players head to gain effects of this feat at all times. Benefit: The physical stature of the character lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger; but like powerful build they are only treated as one size large when dealing with large weapons, when determining immunity to special abilities, and (eventually) with opposed size rolls. At 1 hit die the character can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. A character is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. The benefits of this feat stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category, but not with the feat monkey grip, powerful build obtained by other manors, and other feats that allow using larger weapons; although the ability to use large weapons does not stack with optimized build they do gain the other bonuses.
Spikes01k 04-01-07, 12:19 PM	looks a little broken... Heres my fix on it. Optimized Build These main characters always have the biggest weapon and deal the most damage. They must have the biggest hair in the party, They are naturally on the cover of every final fantasy game ever made. Unfortunately the whole party might take this feat to see who can deal the most damage. Prerequisites: Str 15 and Dex 13 (before the feat adjustments). Special Prerequisites: Must be taken as a first level, without the aid of magical items. If any flaw is taken this feat becomes useless. Effect: -2 Dex, height is improved by 1d3 inches, but this can not increase their actual size category. Hair must be twice the size of players head to gain effects of this feat at all times. Benefit: The physical stature of the character lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger; but like powerful build they are only treated as one size large when dealing with large weapons, when determining immunity to special abilities, and (eventually) with opposed size rolls. At 1 hit die the character can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. A character is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. The benefits of this feat stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category, but not with the feat monkey grip, powerful build obtained by other manors, and other feats that allow using larger weapons; although the ability to use large weapons does not stack with optimized build they do gain the other bonuses. Um whats diffrent other than you making it an "Anime" freek?
zuul88 04-01-07, 12:45 PM	Do Dwarven beards count????????
Navigator 04-01-07, 12:59 PM	Honestly, I don't see what's so "broken" about it. Where's all this awesome damage coming from? Going from a 2d6 to 2d8? Powerful build is good and all, but that's not the sole reason a Goliath gets their level adjustment. They also get a bonus to strength and constitution, with very little penalty. For two feats, you get to wield a larger weapon (which will not give you increased reach, only a better roll), and a +4 size bonus to grapple, trip and disarm (all of which you still take an AoO for). Personally, I think the dexterity penalty is a good effect of the feat, since larger creatures generally have lower dexterity scores than smaller creatures. This is very similar to what the Complete Mage's Rapid Metamagic feat did to Arcane Preparation. No one seemed to mind making casters more powerful.
Spikes01k 04-01-07, 04:42 PM	Honestly, I don't see what's so "broken" about it. Where's all this awesome damage coming from? Going from a 2d6 to 2d8? Powerful build is good and all, but that's not the sole reason a Goliath gets their level adjustment. They also get a bonus to strength and constitution, with very little penalty. For two feats, you get to wield a larger weapon (which will not give you increased reach, only a better roll), and a +4 size bonus to grapple, trip and disarm (all of which you still take an AoO for). Personally, I think the dexterity penalty is a good effect of the feat, since larger creatures generally have lower dexterity scores than smaller creatures. This is very similar to what the Complete Mage's Rapid Metamagic feat did to Arcane Preparation. No one seemed to mind making casters more powerful. Thank you! People sometimes just see powerful build and think, OMDG its broken! Mubt most people I talk to try to look into powerful build too much.
zuul88 04-02-07, 04:13 AM	This is very similar to what the Complete Mage's Rapid Metamagic feat did to Arcane Preparation. No one seemed to mind making casters more powerful. Thats because they will gate in a pitfiend to see if you still "mind" them getting stronger, plus fighters picked on casters as children. Nathan