Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JarionSilverblades 08-02-07, 02:48 PM	I've been looking at the human's stats for awhile now and it always seemed off that while human are more adaptable then any other race, yet they lack racial ability modifiers, I mean there must be humans that are naturally agile yet physically weaker then others, or humans that are very wise yet frail. The more I thought about it the more I felt there should be a way for humans to gain racial ability modifiers (not including the Human Paragon). So I used the table from the DM's guide to create two feats that would allow a human to be truly universal. I'd like to know what everyone thinks, and if anyone feels that these feats are to powerful and if you would change anything. RACIAL PENALTY (racial feat). Prerequisites: Human, must be taken at 1st level, before any other feat is taken. Benefits: A human gains a - 2 penalty to any one ability. Normal: Without this feat a human has no penalty to any ability. Special: This feat may not be taken multiple times, once the penalty is chosen it may not be changed. RACIAL BONUS (racial feat). Prerequisites: Human, Racial Penalty feat, must be taken at 1st level, after all other feats are taken. Benefits: A human gains a +2 bonus to any one ability based on the penalty gained from the Racial Penalty feat. -2 Strength = +2 Dexterity or Constitution -2 Dexterity = +2 Strength or Constitution -2 Constitution = +2 Any other ability -2 Intelligence = +2 Wisdom or Charisma -2 Wisdom = +2 Intelligence or Charisma -2 Charisma = + Intelligence or Wisdom Normal: Without this feat a human has no Bonus to any ability. Special: This feat may not be taken multiple times, once the bonus is chosen it may not be changed.
TheCanadian 08-02-07, 03:26 PM	I can understand the reasoning behind wanting to give the human a racial bonus/penalty. I know that I'm certainly not as strong as some people, but I am definitely smarter (-2 Str +2 Int?). I think though that splitting it up into two feats is a bit excessive. I mean, this already makes a Human give up it's free bonus feat at first level (which is a major reason people play the Human anyway) so I think that making the player give up their first level feat as well is overkill. Something better would be to make it one feat, so the player is given the option of either using the Human Bonus Feat to customize or up the awesome of their character, or take on a racial penalty/bonus to up the awesome in a different way.
tarkin 08-02-07, 03:36 PM	The question is, would you take this set of feats. Yeah, most people would not. But I can easily see the following people taking the feat: 1. A Wizard dropping his Charisma. Two feats grants him +2 int, which assuming he was already at 18, effectively grants him one extra 1st level spell per day (along with an extra 5th when he hits that level, and another +1 to his saves. 2. Sorcerors dropping his int to get a Charisma bonus. Again, same reason as above. 3. Cleric dropping ihs int to get Wisdom. Same as above ------ For spellcaster types, this looks like a good trade for me.
JarionSilverblades 08-03-07, 04:02 PM	I thought a single feat that gave human's a ability bonus/penalty would be to powerful, that's why I made it two feats instead of a single one.
SolenVlos 08-03-07, 04:36 PM	what if you make a single feat with -2 in two different abilites and +2 to one?
JadeSpider9643 08-03-07, 04:59 PM	I thought a single feat that gave human's a ability bonus/penalty would be to powerful, that's why I made it two feats instead of a single one. what if you make a single feat with -2 in two different abilites and +2 to one? I think Jarion was very wise in making it a 2-feat effect, as a single feat it's potentially abusive, and almost no one would not take it (a clear sign of over-powered-ness), and i think that locking down the physical penalty for physical bonus and mental penalty for mental bonuses was also a good move. Ultimately a human that takes this essentially spends 1 feat to give up their human bonus feat for a combination of ability score penalty & bonus. And while i admit that this is a strong execution of the idea, i don't think it was entirely necessary. It could reasonably be argued that the variances between human individuals is represented by the die rolls on their ability scores. If the truely average human is all 10s in every score, then each individual is most likly higher in some areas and lower in others.
Tealgorthian 08-03-07, 05:07 PM	I'd do it this way. Feat: Odd Man Out (or whatever) Requirements: Must have a bonus feat as a racial ability You may choose one of the follow effects: You take a -2 penalty to a Physical Stat (Str, Dex or Con) and a gain a +2 Bonus on any Mental Stat (Wis, Int, Cha) You take a -2 Penalty to a Physical Stat to gain a +2 Bonus on a Physical Stat You take a -2 Penalty to any TWO Mental Stats to gain a +2 Bonus to any Physical Stat You take a -2 Penalty to any Mental Stat to gain a +2 Bonus to any Mental Stat
JarionSilverblades 08-22-07, 04:25 PM	I'd do it this way. You take a -2 penalty to a Physical Stat (Str, Dex or Con) and a gain a +2 Bonus on any Mental Stat (Wis, Int, Cha) Allowing Characters these choices to me makes it too easy to abuse. A Wizard taking a -2 on Str or Dex to gain a bonus to Int is really more to their benefit, You take a -2 Penalty to any TWO Mental Stats to gain a +2 Bonus to any Physical Stat [/LIST] or a Fighter taking a -2 on Int and Cha to gain a bonus on strength again is really more a benefit. Looking at it again maybe splitting it into Two feats was a bit much, I just can't think of any drawback to add to make it more balanced as a single feat.
Spikes01k 08-22-07, 05:03 PM	This is hardly worth 1 feat. Combine the two and you got something that might work.
tarkin 08-22-07, 05:52 PM	There is no way this is only worth a single feat, as is. The existence of dump stats makes the balancing factor rather low. +2 to something for -2 to Charisma is such an obvious gain for so many characters (Wizard, some Rogues, most Fighter types. If you want to make it one feat, try ONLY allowing this one: -2 Constitution = +2 Any other ability The penalty of -2 to Con is harsh. It affects all players pretty badly. That is a fair single feat. The others require two feats.
CJDragon 08-22-07, 06:44 PM	Isn't the whole point of humans that they are the yardstick by which other races are measured? A human is of normal toughness, while dwarves are abnormally tough and elves abnormally frail, for instance. I like the lack of stat modifiers as this maintains their position as a measure for other races. As for the OPs comments that some humans are naturally stronger than others and such, isn't that the whole point of determining stats via point buy or whichever system you use, to show that not all people are the same? The only reason I can see for these feats is if for flavour reasons you would want a stat below 8 (which a human cannot achieve otherwise i believe). Otherwise it does seem to be too easily used to powergame by raising casting stats and such.