New Fighter Feats (ToB) [Archive] - Wizards Community

New Fighter Feats (ToB) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Alpha_Moose
04-29-07, 03:18 PM I've thought up some new ideas for some Fighter feats, and I was wondering what anyone thought of them.

FIGHTER OF THE SUBLIME WAY [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Fighter level 6th, Martial Study.
Benefit: The Fighter’s initiator level equals his full Fighter level for any maneuvers or stances he learns though Martial Study or Martial Stance. This also allows him to learn higher-level maneuvers according to his initiator level. He still must meet the prerequisites for a maneuver to learn it. A multiclass martial adept still only uses ½ your Fighter levels, as normal for multiclass martial adepts.
The Fighter also gains a recovery method for any maneuvers he learns though Martial Study. He can recover all expended maneuvers as a swift action. He may not initiate a maneuver in the same round he recovered his maneuvers.
The Fighter may also now gain Martial Study more than 3 times, but only as a fighter bonus feat.
Special: A fighter may select Fighter of the Sublime Way as one of his fighter bonus feats.

FIGHTER APTITUDE [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Weapon Focus or Martial Study, Fighter level 6th.
Benefit: At the level this feat is gained and every level after, a Fighter may change the designated weapon for any feat that applies to only a single weapon (such as Weapon Focus). He can adjust any number of feats this way, but still must meet the prerequisites for each feat.
The Fighter may also replace any maneuver or stance he knows by virtue of the Martial Study or Martial Stance feats to another maneuver or stance, provided he meets the prerequisite for each new maneuver he learns.
The Fighter may only select these options when he gains a new Fighter level.
Special: A fighter may select Fighter Aptitude as one of his fighter bonus feats.

So, any thought/questions/comments?
Metafictional
04-29-07, 09:43 PM Looks good to me!
Alpha_Moose
05-02-07, 01:30 PM Looks good to me!

Thanks! Anyone else?
Nadaka
05-02-07, 02:10 PM It is kinda nice. But it doesn't really balance the fighter with the warblade.

your fighter is going to be spending 11 feats (Fighter of the sublime way, 7 martial study's, 3 martial stances) to get the stances and maneuver slots of a warblade.

He will still be 6 maneuvers known short, will not be able to trade low level maneuvers for higher, wont have stance mastery, wont have an extra 5 bonus feats, won't get int bonus to 6 things, cant trade his weapon feats every day, wont have improved uncanny dodge, will be 21 hp short, be missing one stance and finally 46 skill points lacking.

But on the plus side, he can use heavy armor and a tower shield.

That is what? 10 to 15 feats worth (not even counting the skill points) of stuff the warblade gets over the fighter who tries to be a warblade?

IMC i'll be bumping the fighter to 4 skill points + 1 feat per level. As an alternate class feature he can drop heavy armor, tower shields and his odd level bonus feats for warblade maneuver progression with the swordsage recovery mechanic. And if he wants to complete the look, take improved toughness, Warblade recovery mechanic, uncanny dodge, stance mastery and a couple +int to random stuff in place of some bonus feats. The fighter will still end up a couple bonus feats short, but hey, warblade was a tad strong anyway.
Alpha_Moose
05-02-07, 02:24 PM It is kinda nice. But it doesn't really balance the fighter with the warblade.
Oh, I know. My main idea was, instead of a whole re-write (there are already like six on the boards), just a couple of additions. There's still problems with the Fighter, but these help somewhat.

your fighter is going to be spending 11 feats (Fighter of the sublime way, 7 martial study's, 3 martial stances) to get the stances and maneuver slots of a warblade.
Well, yeah. Why not just be the Warblade at that point? The main (as in only) strength of the Fighter is feat synergy (which has problems in of itself). The idea behind these feats is so the Fighter can have more high level stances and maneuvers that synergize with feat chains that the Warblade can't do.

IMC i'll be bumping the fighter to 4 skill points + 1 feat per level. As an alternate class feature he can drop heavy armor, tower shields and his odd level bonus feats for warblade maneuver progression with the swordsage recovery mechanic. And if he wants to complete the look, take improved toughness, Warblade recovery mechanic, uncanny dodge, stance mastery and a couple +int to random stuff in place of some bonus feats. The fighter will still end up a couple bonus feats short, but hey, warblade was a tad strong anyway.
Yeah, I'd bump up skills anyways. Again, this is more of "something you can just add" instead of "here's a whole new rewrite".
batmanjr
05-02-07, 06:42 PM 7 martial study's, 3 martial stances) to get the stances and maneuver slots of a warblade.

You have read the feat, right? It clearly says Martial Study is a feat that can only be taken 3 times?
Crashy75
05-02-07, 08:48 PM You have read the feat, right? It clearly says Martial Study is a feat that can only be taken 3 times?

Am's feat bypasses that limitation.
Not bad btw. I'd rather just scrap the fighter and re-create him as a martial adept but this is still cool. All known maneuvers are readied (I assume) and a swift action recovery with no attack requirement. Not being able to trade maneuvers really does hurt. I feel like making one just to see how it would work in game.

EDIT: I'm positive there are more than 6 fighter fixes on the boards.
EDIT 2: Nadaka is right about the skills.
EDIT 3: Also, I really don't like dead levels.
Alpha_Moose
05-02-07, 09:21 PM Am's feat bypasses that limitation.
Not bad btw. I'd rather just scrap the fighter and re-create him as a martial adept but this is still cool. All known maneuvers are readied (I assume) and a swift action recovery with no attack requirement. Not being able to trade maneuvers really does hurt. I feel like making one just to see how it would work in game.

I'm tempted to do the same, but I don't have CW or PHBII which have good Fighter feats. I could just do something anyways though.
EDIT: I'm positive there are more than 6 fighter fixes on the boards.
EDIT 2: Nadaka is right about the skills.
EDIT 3: Also, I really don't like dead levels.
1: Probably. I just pulled a random number out of the Kuiper Belt.
2: Yes he is.
3: Agreed. The feats do help though (trading in maneuvers seems like your getting something new).
Crashy75
05-02-07, 09:47 PM I'm tempted to do the same, but I don't have CW or PHBII which have good Fighter feats. I could just do something anyways though.
I was thinking of just using core + ToB for simplicity. I'm not really into char op that much. I think a moderate character would be a better test anyway. It's hard to make a bad warblade after all.

1: Probably. I just pulled a random number out of the Kuiper Belt.
2: Yes he is.
3: Agreed. The feats do help though (trading in maneuvers seems like your getting something new).
I have to admit, I didn't even read fighter apt. I assumed it was just the same as the wb weapon apt. :embarrass
Just so we're clear, when you select martial study or martial stance, you can trade in addition to gaining a new maneuver/stance? It would have to be, otherwise it would weaken them (I'd rather have a weak maneuver/stance than lose it for nothing). And you can trade out stances?!?!?!? I'm going to have to digest that one for a little bit.
Alpha_Moose
05-03-07, 01:23 PM I have to admit, I didn't even read fighter apt. I assumed it was just the same as the wb weapon apt. :embarrass
Just so we're clear, when you select martial study or martial stance, you can trade in addition to gaining a new maneuver/stance? It would have to be, otherwise it would weaken them (I'd rather have a weak maneuver/stance than lose it for nothing). And you can trade out stances?!?!?!? I'm going to have to digest that one for a little bit.

I originally had Fighter Aptitude only allow you to trade your maneuvers. Basically you were replacing your Martial Study feat for a different Martial Study feat, but because Fighter-otSW lets you take higher level maneuvers you could get better ones. If you wanted to actually learn more maneuvers you had to take Martial Study again.
And yes, you can trade stances. That is one thing that these feats let you do that Martial Adepts normally can't do.
Crashy75
05-03-07, 05:10 PM I originally had Fighter Aptitude only allow you to trade your maneuvers. Basically you were replacing your Martial Study feat for a different Martial Study feat, but because Fighter-otSW lets you take higher level maneuvers you could get better ones. If you wanted to actually learn more maneuvers you had to take Martial Study again.
And yes, you can trade stances. That is one thing that these feats let you do that Martial Adepts normally can't do.

I'm not sure I understand. You get your feat back? This is looking much better than the warblade. With this you could upgrade your maneuver/stance set whenever you gain a fighter feat. Or do I understand correctly? Is there some sort of limit other than the fighter level requirement?

EDIT: I just re-read your last post. It is looking like my initial reaction was correct. Are you saying that whenever you select martial study or martial stance, you can choose to replace a maneuver or stance for a new one or you can gain a new maneuver/stance? In other words you can choose to lose a maneuver or stance and gain nothing? That isn't very useful. The weaker maneuvers/stances can be prerequisites if nothing else. You are already gaining higher level maneuvers/stances with martial study because of your initiator level.
Alpha_Moose
05-03-07, 06:02 PM EDIT: I just re-read your last post. It is looking like my initial reaction was correct. Are you saying that whenever you select martial study or martial stance, you can choose to replace a maneuver or stance for a new one or you can gain a new maneuver/stance?
You lose one stance/maneuver and can get a different stance/maneuver, not a new one (kinda).

In other words you can choose to lose a maneuver or stance and gain nothing?

Well, you don't gain something extra, but you do gain a different maneuver. The main point of that feat was so the Fighter isn't stuck into decisions he made earlier in his career.
That isn't very useful. The weaker maneuvers/stances can be prerequisites if nothing else. You are already gaining higher level maneuvers/stances with martial study because of your initiator level.
You can't get new maneuvers because of your higher initiator level. These feats change your initiator level to equal your Fighter level (for maneuvers you learn though Martial Study), and allow you to exchange past maneuvers known for new higher level ones (which the feat Martial Study doesn't let you do).

Here's an example. Bob, a Fighter, takes both these feats at 6th level. His initiator level would have been 3, but now it's 6 (because of F-otSW). He already has 2 Martial Study's and Martial Stance, so he knows two 1st level maneuvers and one stance.
Let's say he already knows Crusader's Strike, Vanguard Strike, and Martial Spirit. He decides to replace his maneuvers, because of Fighter Aptitude. He learns Revitalizing Strike and Thicket of Blades, replacing Crusader's Strike and Martial Spirit (so he doesn't know them now). He can now initiate Revitalizing Strike and Vanguard Strike once per encounter, and can recover them as a swift action.
At 7th level he decides to 'unlearn' Revitalizing Strike and learn Divine Surge. He now knows Vanguard Strike, Divine Surge, and Thicket of Blades and can initiate them as a 7th level initiator (if that matters).
Crashy75
05-03-07, 08:04 PM So he can exchange any number of maneuvers/stances as he levels?
EDIT: And this doesn't require any feat expenditure?
Alpha_Moose
05-03-07, 08:05 PM So he can exchange any number of maneuvers/stances as he levels?

Yes.
Crashy75
05-03-07, 08:07 PM Yes.

I'm going to see if I can abuse this.
Crashy75
05-03-07, 08:11 PM I'm going to assume that you can only exchange a given maneuver/stance once per level up. Don't laugh. I know people that would exploit this to bypass prerequisites. As it is, you can do this over a couple of levels.
ssvegeta555
05-04-07, 01:47 AM The first feat looks good and balanced. The second feat I have a beef with. Weapon Aptitude is far superior to Fighter Apritude (with changing weapon feats). The Warblade's ability allows him to change it far more times than once per level as the fighter equivilent does. IMHO, I say the fighter should get the Warblade's Weapon Aptitude for free at first level.
It's just insulting that the warblade get's something that screams 'fighter ability.'
The second part of the feat I'm not sure how that will play out and if it can be abused. It looks like it could, but I'm not sure honestly.
Realms of Chaos
05-04-07, 10:24 AM I personally enjoy the idea of weapon supremacy+ Martial Study (Time stands still).
Crashy75
05-04-07, 10:39 AM The first feat looks good and balanced. The second feat I have a beef with. Weapon Aptitude is far superior to Fighter Apritude (with changing weapon feats). The Warblade's ability allows him to change it far more times than once per level as the fighter equivilent does. IMHO, I say the fighter should get the Warblade's Weapon Aptitude for free at first level.
It's just insulting that the warblade get's something that screams 'fighter ability.'
The second part of the feat I'm not sure how that will play out and if it can be abused. It looks like it could, but I'm not sure honestly.

That's not the beauty of this feat; it's the ability to upgrade your maneuver set as you level. But yeah, weapon aptitude should be a 1st level fighter class feature.
Alpha_Moose
05-05-07, 01:48 PM I'm going to assume that you can only exchange a given maneuver/stance once per level up. Don't laugh. I know people that would exploit this to bypass prerequisites. As it is, you can do this over a couple of levels.
Yeah, it should only be once per level. Otherwise you've got some craziness going on with prerequisites.
That's not the beauty of this feat; it's the ability to upgrade your maneuver set as you level. But yeah, weapon aptitude should be a 1st level fighter class feature.
The weapon changing was more of an add-on. I was first thinking of just one feat, but I thought it would be too much for one feat (at least at this level).

I'm thinking of posting these on the CharOp boards to see what kinda abuse they can cause.
aelryinth
05-05-07, 08:36 PM Take a look on Regdar's Repository for a write-up on how a Fighter might look if it had been built according to the standards of a Warblade (towards the end). It might prove useful to you.

===Aelryinth
Alpha_Moose
05-05-07, 09:27 PM Take a look on Regdar's Repository for a write-up on how a Fighter might look if it had been built according to the standards of a Warblade (towards the end). It might prove useful to you.

===Aelryinth

Oh, I've already read that. Good job by the way. While I do agree that the Fighter class should basically have a whole rewrite, I'm not the one to do it (not now anyways ;) ). Right now, without rewrites, the best fix is more feats that aid the Fighter. These feats only work at Fighter levels, making people want to keep in them a little longer. Also I think that the reason why some people (not I) didn't like ToB was because it didn't do too much for the Fighter class. If I really wanted a Fighter rewrite, I'd just change the Warblade a bit (add in ranged weapons basically).
Fabius Maximus
05-19-07, 04:20 PM Nice idea. But why not giving any class that takes the martial study feats a full initator progression on default?
Alpha_Moose
05-19-07, 07:04 PM Nice idea. But why not giving any class that takes the martial study feats a full initator progression on default?
Well, this gives something extra to the Fighter. Yeah, the full initiator idea would work. Again, this is more of an addition instead of a variant.
Fabius Maximus
05-19-07, 08:15 PM Well, this gives something extra to the Fighter. Yeah, the full initiator idea would work. Again, this is more of an addition instead of a variant.
Actually, it just requires adjusting the relevant feats from ToB.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Alpha_Moose 04-29-07, 03:18 PM	I've thought up some new ideas for some Fighter feats, and I was wondering what anyone thought of them. FIGHTER OF THE SUBLIME WAY [GENERAL] Prerequisites: Fighter level 6th, Martial Study. Benefit: The Fighter’s initiator level equals his full Fighter level for any maneuvers or stances he learns though Martial Study or Martial Stance. This also allows him to learn higher-level maneuvers according to his initiator level. He still must meet the prerequisites for a maneuver to learn it. A multiclass martial adept still only uses ½ your Fighter levels, as normal for multiclass martial adepts. The Fighter also gains a recovery method for any maneuvers he learns though Martial Study. He can recover all expended maneuvers as a swift action. He may not initiate a maneuver in the same round he recovered his maneuvers. The Fighter may also now gain Martial Study more than 3 times, but only as a fighter bonus feat. Special: A fighter may select Fighter of the Sublime Way as one of his fighter bonus feats. FIGHTER APTITUDE [GENERAL] Prerequisites: Weapon Focus or Martial Study, Fighter level 6th. Benefit: At the level this feat is gained and every level after, a Fighter may change the designated weapon for any feat that applies to only a single weapon (such as Weapon Focus). He can adjust any number of feats this way, but still must meet the prerequisites for each feat. The Fighter may also replace any maneuver or stance he knows by virtue of the Martial Study or Martial Stance feats to another maneuver or stance, provided he meets the prerequisite for each new maneuver he learns. The Fighter may only select these options when he gains a new Fighter level. Special: A fighter may select Fighter Aptitude as one of his fighter bonus feats. So, any thought/questions/comments?
Metafictional 04-29-07, 09:43 PM	Looks good to me!
Alpha_Moose 05-02-07, 01:30 PM	Looks good to me! Thanks! Anyone else?
Nadaka 05-02-07, 02:10 PM	It is kinda nice. But it doesn't really balance the fighter with the warblade. your fighter is going to be spending 11 feats (Fighter of the sublime way, 7 martial study's, 3 martial stances) to get the stances and maneuver slots of a warblade. He will still be 6 maneuvers known short, will not be able to trade low level maneuvers for higher, wont have stance mastery, wont have an extra 5 bonus feats, won't get int bonus to 6 things, cant trade his weapon feats every day, wont have improved uncanny dodge, will be 21 hp short, be missing one stance and finally 46 skill points lacking. But on the plus side, he can use heavy armor and a tower shield. That is what? 10 to 15 feats worth (not even counting the skill points) of stuff the warblade gets over the fighter who tries to be a warblade? IMC i'll be bumping the fighter to 4 skill points + 1 feat per level. As an alternate class feature he can drop heavy armor, tower shields and his odd level bonus feats for warblade maneuver progression with the swordsage recovery mechanic. And if he wants to complete the look, take improved toughness, Warblade recovery mechanic, uncanny dodge, stance mastery and a couple +int to random stuff in place of some bonus feats. The fighter will still end up a couple bonus feats short, but hey, warblade was a tad strong anyway.
Alpha_Moose 05-02-07, 02:24 PM	It is kinda nice. But it doesn't really balance the fighter with the warblade. Oh, I know. My main idea was, instead of a whole re-write (there are already like six on the boards), just a couple of additions. There's still problems with the Fighter, but these help somewhat. your fighter is going to be spending 11 feats (Fighter of the sublime way, 7 martial study's, 3 martial stances) to get the stances and maneuver slots of a warblade. Well, yeah. Why not just be the Warblade at that point? The main (as in only) strength of the Fighter is feat synergy (which has problems in of itself). The idea behind these feats is so the Fighter can have more high level stances and maneuvers that synergize with feat chains that the Warblade can't do. IMC i'll be bumping the fighter to 4 skill points + 1 feat per level. As an alternate class feature he can drop heavy armor, tower shields and his odd level bonus feats for warblade maneuver progression with the swordsage recovery mechanic. And if he wants to complete the look, take improved toughness, Warblade recovery mechanic, uncanny dodge, stance mastery and a couple +int to random stuff in place of some bonus feats. The fighter will still end up a couple bonus feats short, but hey, warblade was a tad strong anyway. Yeah, I'd bump up skills anyways. Again, this is more of "something you can just add" instead of "here's a whole new rewrite".
batmanjr 05-02-07, 06:42 PM	7 martial study's, 3 martial stances) to get the stances and maneuver slots of a warblade. You have read the feat, right? It clearly says Martial Study is a feat that can only be taken 3 times?
Crashy75 05-02-07, 08:48 PM	You have read the feat, right? It clearly says Martial Study is a feat that can only be taken 3 times? Am's feat bypasses that limitation. Not bad btw. I'd rather just scrap the fighter and re-create him as a martial adept but this is still cool. All known maneuvers are readied (I assume) and a swift action recovery with no attack requirement. Not being able to trade maneuvers really does hurt. I feel like making one just to see how it would work in game. EDIT: I'm positive there are more than 6 fighter fixes on the boards. EDIT 2: Nadaka is right about the skills. EDIT 3: Also, I really don't like dead levels.
Alpha_Moose 05-02-07, 09:21 PM	Am's feat bypasses that limitation. Not bad btw. I'd rather just scrap the fighter and re-create him as a martial adept but this is still cool. All known maneuvers are readied (I assume) and a swift action recovery with no attack requirement. Not being able to trade maneuvers really does hurt. I feel like making one just to see how it would work in game. I'm tempted to do the same, but I don't have CW or PHBII which have good Fighter feats. I could just do something anyways though. EDIT: I'm positive there are more than 6 fighter fixes on the boards. EDIT 2: Nadaka is right about the skills. EDIT 3: Also, I really don't like dead levels. 1: Probably. I just pulled a random number out of the Kuiper Belt. 2: Yes he is. 3: Agreed. The feats do help though (trading in maneuvers seems like your getting something new).
Crashy75 05-02-07, 09:47 PM	I'm tempted to do the same, but I don't have CW or PHBII which have good Fighter feats. I could just do something anyways though. I was thinking of just using core + ToB for simplicity. I'm not really into char op that much. I think a moderate character would be a better test anyway. It's hard to make a bad warblade after all. 1: Probably. I just pulled a random number out of the Kuiper Belt. 2: Yes he is. 3: Agreed. The feats do help though (trading in maneuvers seems like your getting something new). I have to admit, I didn't even read fighter apt. I assumed it was just the same as the wb weapon apt. :embarrass Just so we're clear, when you select martial study or martial stance, you can trade in addition to gaining a new maneuver/stance? It would have to be, otherwise it would weaken them (I'd rather have a weak maneuver/stance than lose it for nothing). And you can trade out stances?!?!?!? I'm going to have to digest that one for a little bit.
Alpha_Moose 05-03-07, 01:23 PM	I have to admit, I didn't even read fighter apt. I assumed it was just the same as the wb weapon apt. :embarrass Just so we're clear, when you select martial study or martial stance, you can trade in addition to gaining a new maneuver/stance? It would have to be, otherwise it would weaken them (I'd rather have a weak maneuver/stance than lose it for nothing). And you can trade out stances?!?!?!? I'm going to have to digest that one for a little bit. I originally had Fighter Aptitude only allow you to trade your maneuvers. Basically you were replacing your Martial Study feat for a different Martial Study feat, but because Fighter-otSW lets you take higher level maneuvers you could get better ones. If you wanted to actually learn more maneuvers you had to take Martial Study again. And yes, you can trade stances. That is one thing that these feats let you do that Martial Adepts normally can't do.
Crashy75 05-03-07, 05:10 PM	I originally had Fighter Aptitude only allow you to trade your maneuvers. Basically you were replacing your Martial Study feat for a different Martial Study feat, but because Fighter-otSW lets you take higher level maneuvers you could get better ones. If you wanted to actually learn more maneuvers you had to take Martial Study again. And yes, you can trade stances. That is one thing that these feats let you do that Martial Adepts normally can't do. I'm not sure I understand. You get your feat back? This is looking much better than the warblade. With this you could upgrade your maneuver/stance set whenever you gain a fighter feat. Or do I understand correctly? Is there some sort of limit other than the fighter level requirement? EDIT: I just re-read your last post. It is looking like my initial reaction was correct. Are you saying that whenever you select martial study or martial stance, you can choose to replace a maneuver or stance for a new one or you can gain a new maneuver/stance? In other words you can choose to lose a maneuver or stance and gain nothing? That isn't very useful. The weaker maneuvers/stances can be prerequisites if nothing else. You are already gaining higher level maneuvers/stances with martial study because of your initiator level.
Alpha_Moose 05-03-07, 06:02 PM	EDIT: I just re-read your last post. It is looking like my initial reaction was correct. Are you saying that whenever you select martial study or martial stance, you can choose to replace a maneuver or stance for a new one or you can gain a new maneuver/stance? You lose one stance/maneuver and can get a different stance/maneuver, not a new one (kinda). In other words you can choose to lose a maneuver or stance and gain nothing? Well, you don't gain something extra, but you do gain a different maneuver. The main point of that feat was so the Fighter isn't stuck into decisions he made earlier in his career. That isn't very useful. The weaker maneuvers/stances can be prerequisites if nothing else. You are already gaining higher level maneuvers/stances with martial study because of your initiator level. You can't get new maneuvers because of your higher initiator level. These feats change your initiator level to equal your Fighter level (for maneuvers you learn though Martial Study), and allow you to exchange past maneuvers known for new higher level ones (which the feat Martial Study doesn't let you do). Here's an example. Bob, a Fighter, takes both these feats at 6th level. His initiator level would have been 3, but now it's 6 (because of F-otSW). He already has 2 Martial Study's and Martial Stance, so he knows two 1st level maneuvers and one stance. Let's say he already knows Crusader's Strike, Vanguard Strike, and Martial Spirit. He decides to replace his maneuvers, because of Fighter Aptitude. He learns Revitalizing Strike and Thicket of Blades, replacing Crusader's Strike and Martial Spirit (so he doesn't know them now). He can now initiate Revitalizing Strike and Vanguard Strike once per encounter, and can recover them as a swift action. At 7th level he decides to 'unlearn' Revitalizing Strike and learn Divine Surge. He now knows Vanguard Strike, Divine Surge, and Thicket of Blades and can initiate them as a 7th level initiator (if that matters).
Crashy75 05-03-07, 08:04 PM	So he can exchange any number of maneuvers/stances as he levels? EDIT: And this doesn't require any feat expenditure?
Alpha_Moose 05-03-07, 08:05 PM	So he can exchange any number of maneuvers/stances as he levels? Yes.
Crashy75 05-03-07, 08:07 PM	Yes. I'm going to see if I can abuse this.
Crashy75 05-03-07, 08:11 PM	I'm going to assume that you can only exchange a given maneuver/stance once per level up. Don't laugh. I know people that would exploit this to bypass prerequisites. As it is, you can do this over a couple of levels.
ssvegeta555 05-04-07, 01:47 AM	The first feat looks good and balanced. The second feat I have a beef with. Weapon Aptitude is far superior to Fighter Apritude (with changing weapon feats). The Warblade's ability allows him to change it far more times than once per level as the fighter equivilent does. IMHO, I say the fighter should get the Warblade's Weapon Aptitude for free at first level. It's just insulting that the warblade get's something that screams 'fighter ability.' The second part of the feat I'm not sure how that will play out and if it can be abused. It looks like it could, but I'm not sure honestly.
Realms of Chaos 05-04-07, 10:24 AM	I personally enjoy the idea of weapon supremacy+ Martial Study (Time stands still).
Crashy75 05-04-07, 10:39 AM	The first feat looks good and balanced. The second feat I have a beef with. Weapon Aptitude is far superior to Fighter Apritude (with changing weapon feats). The Warblade's ability allows him to change it far more times than once per level as the fighter equivilent does. IMHO, I say the fighter should get the Warblade's Weapon Aptitude for free at first level. It's just insulting that the warblade get's something that screams 'fighter ability.' The second part of the feat I'm not sure how that will play out and if it can be abused. It looks like it could, but I'm not sure honestly. That's not the beauty of this feat; it's the ability to upgrade your maneuver set as you level. But yeah, weapon aptitude should be a 1st level fighter class feature.
Alpha_Moose 05-05-07, 01:48 PM	I'm going to assume that you can only exchange a given maneuver/stance once per level up. Don't laugh. I know people that would exploit this to bypass prerequisites. As it is, you can do this over a couple of levels. Yeah, it should only be once per level. Otherwise you've got some craziness going on with prerequisites. That's not the beauty of this feat; it's the ability to upgrade your maneuver set as you level. But yeah, weapon aptitude should be a 1st level fighter class feature. The weapon changing was more of an add-on. I was first thinking of just one feat, but I thought it would be too much for one feat (at least at this level). I'm thinking of posting these on the CharOp boards to see what kinda abuse they can cause.
aelryinth 05-05-07, 08:36 PM	Take a look on Regdar's Repository for a write-up on how a Fighter might look if it had been built according to the standards of a Warblade (towards the end). It might prove useful to you. ===Aelryinth
Alpha_Moose 05-05-07, 09:27 PM	Take a look on Regdar's Repository for a write-up on how a Fighter might look if it had been built according to the standards of a Warblade (towards the end). It might prove useful to you. ===Aelryinth Oh, I've already read that. Good job by the way. While I do agree that the Fighter class should basically have a whole rewrite, I'm not the one to do it (not now anyways ;) ). Right now, without rewrites, the best fix is more feats that aid the Fighter. These feats only work at Fighter levels, making people want to keep in them a little longer. Also I think that the reason why some people (not I) didn't like ToB was because it didn't do too much for the Fighter class. If I really wanted a Fighter rewrite, I'd just change the Warblade a bit (add in ranged weapons basically).
Fabius Maximus 05-19-07, 04:20 PM	Nice idea. But why not giving any class that takes the martial study feats a full initator progression on default?
Alpha_Moose 05-19-07, 07:04 PM	Nice idea. But why not giving any class that takes the martial study feats a full initator progression on default? Well, this gives something extra to the Fighter. Yeah, the full initiator idea would work. Again, this is more of an addition instead of a variant.
Fabius Maximus 05-19-07, 08:15 PM	Well, this gives something extra to the Fighter. Yeah, the full initiator idea would work. Again, this is more of an addition instead of a variant. Actually, it just requires adjusting the relevant feats from ToB.