Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Osedox 08-08-07, 03:45 AM	RAZOR SPELL [METAMAGIC] You can modify your ray spells so that they are capable of dealing grievous wounds almost never miss. You can alter any (Effect: Ray) spell with this feat. You gain an insight bonus to hit with your ray equal to your primary spell casting ability modifier. The spells critical range is also increased to 18-20x2. A ray spell modified by this feat uses up a spell slot 2 levels higher than normal. any comments? balanced? broken?
Kouk 08-08-07, 07:45 AM	RAZOR SPELL [METAMAGIC] You can modify your ray spells so that they are capable of dealing grievous wounds almost never miss. You can alter any (Effect: Ray) spell with this feat. You gain an insight bonus to hit with your ray equal to your primary spell casting ability modifier. The spells critical range is also increased to 18-20x2. A ray spell modified by this feat uses up a spell slot 2 levels higher than normal. any comments? balanced? broken? Didn't you post this before? I think you might have made it more broken. I don't know of any mechanic that boosting the attack roll based on a stat is similar to other than Weapon Finesse, but this feat would actually allow a Wizard's INT or a Sorcerer's CHA as a bonus to whatever their Dex bonus naturally was. It also increases the threat range of a ray spell by 2 -- all with no prerequisites at all? Let me just give some examples of other feats already in existence: Weapon Focus (Ranged Spell) which is basically just Weapon Focus that applies to any spell that, at a range greater than Touch that also requires an attack roll, gets a +1 bonus to hit. This was previously called Weapon Focus (Ray), but has been tweaked slightly in Complete Arcane. Now, your feat typically will add about 3-6 to hit, just because that is around the type of modifiers casters pump into their relevant modifiers at mid levels (if not sooner). Another feat, Improved Critical (Ranged Spells): It is Improved Critical for spells that require attack rolls at ranges greater than 'Touch'. This improves the Threat Range of the ranged spells to 19-20/x2 instead of the default 20/x2. Also explained further in Complete Arcane, replaces Improved Critical (Ray). Your feat doubles the Threat Range of spells twice, something which is not simulated by any other feat for any other weapon or effect I am aware of. So basically, this feat - which has no prerequisites - is better than two existing feats combined. And the name seems misleading, I would expect "Razor Spell" to add extra slashing damage or something, similar to a Prestige Class ability (I believe Daggerspell Mage?). I don't think adjusting the spell level by 2 can adequately balance all these great improvements it offers. I don't want my post to come across as rude, but yes, it is broken. Edit: I believe a Ray-based caster would take this in a heartbeat, no questions asked. Generally it isn't that hard to hit with Ranged Touch normally, but still this amount of upgrade seems excessive. What happens when a character has Improved Critical (Ranged Spell) and uses this ability? Does the Threat Range increase further, or just not change at all? Metamagic effects tend to alter the spell in some significant way, not tweak the abilities of the caster to deliver the spell. I can sort of see a case for something like "Seeking Spell" that grants a bonus of maybe half your relevant modifier rounded down on an attack roll, assuming it will follow the target around a bit, but that's about it... I am very conservative with inventing mechanics though, and am operating without sleep as I write this, so take my opinions as you will.
Aubri 08-08-07, 09:38 AM	Hmm. I tend to agree that "Razor Spell" isn't a good name, but an effect that lets a ray bend in flight to correct for aim would make a certain amount of sense. It should explicitly stated that a Razor spell can't benefit from other crit boosters. It should note that if you're firing multiple rays (a la Scorching Ray), it only applies to one of them. That said, I'd like to compare to Empower. Razor deals 10% extra damage per attack, on average (10% extra crit chance, 100% bonus damage on a confirmed crit) and gives a nice bonus to hit with rays. (I'm assuming you can confirm a crit on a bonused-up touch attack.) Empower costs 2 levels and gives a 50% bonus to anything. The crit boost alone seems about right for 1 level, so I'd say it's about right at 2 levels. This makes it strictly weaker than the basic metamagic, but that's as it should be -- at 1 level, I think it would be too strong. (It would be keeping company with Silent, Still, and Extend.) Much like using a high-multiplier weapon, you're trading reliability for the chance to deal huge damage.
zorgling25 08-08-07, 10:25 AM	How about adding Weapon Focus(Ray) and Improved Critical(Ray) as prerequisites?
tarkin 08-08-07, 11:36 AM	If I were to make this kind of feat, I would do it as follows (Slightly different) +1 cost but: You use your primary spell stat INSTEAD of Dex.
Aubri 08-08-07, 12:32 PM	If I were to make this kind of feat, I would do it as follows (Slightly different) +1 cost but: You use your primary spell stat INSTEAD of Dex. That's a good idea too.
Osedox 08-08-07, 02:31 PM	Hmm. I tend to agree that "Razor Spell" isn't a good name, but an effect that lets a ray bend in flight to correct for aim would make a certain amount of sense.Ok, Razor spell was just something I made up to fit the concept of the feat at the last moment. Seeking ray had already been used, but pehaps something along the lines of Guided Ray would fit the bill. It should explicitly stated that a Razor spell can't benefit from other crit boosters. It should note that if you're firing multiple rays (a la Scorching Ray), it only applies to one of them.Well normally crit modifiers do not stack, so thats why I didn't mention that (perhaps I should to clarify). I do agree with your second point here tho, Scorching ray in itself is fairly broken, and I certainly am not one to put forth material to make it easier to exploit. Didn't you post this before? I think you might have made it more broken. Yes, I posted it on the Magic and Spells forum initially, but re-posted it here a few hours later, and I didn't make any changes from the other post. I don't know of any mechanic that boosting the attack roll based on a stat is similar to other than Weapon Finesse, but this feat would actually allow a Wizard's INT or a Sorcerer's CHA as a bonus to whatever their Dex bonus naturally was. It also increases the threat range of a ray spell by 2 -- all with no prerequisites at all? Let me just give some examples of other feats already in existence: Weapon Focus (Ranged Spell) which is basically just Weapon Focus that applies to any spell that, at a range greater than Touch that also requires an attack roll, gets a +1 bonus to hit. This was previously called Weapon Focus (Ray), but has been tweaked slightly in Complete Arcane. Now, your feat typically will add about 3-6 to hit, just because that is around the type of modifiers casters pump into their relevant modifiers at mid levels (if not sooner). Another feat, Improved Critical (Ranged Spells): It is Improved Critical for spells that require attack rolls at ranges greater than 'Touch'. This improves the Threat Range of the ranged spells to 19-20/x2 instead of the default 20/x2. Also explained further in Complete Arcane, replaces Improved Critical (Ray). Your feat doubles the Threat Range of spells twice, something which is not simulated by any other feat for any other weapon or effect I am aware of. So basically, this feat - which has no prerequisites - is better than two existing feats combined. No offense, but Weapon Focus (Ray) and Improved Critical (Ray) are feats wasted IMHO. I was quite aware of the two when I penned this feat, and intentionally made it an amalgam of the two. Perhaps your right, 18-20 is a bit much, 19-20 might be more plausible. And the name seems misleading, I would expect "Razor Spell" to add extra slashing damage or something, similar to a Prestige Class ability (I believe Daggerspell Mage?).Your referring to "Invocation of the Knife", the Daggerspell Mage ability that makes all their energy spells deal half slashing damage. I wasn't trying to plagiarize this ability, although I'll admit it does seem similar in name (but not in function which is what really matters.) I don't think adjusting the spell level by 2 can adequately balance all these great improvements it offers. I don't want my post to come across as rude, but yes, it is broken. Edit: I believe a Ray-based caster would take this in a heartbeat, no questions asked. Generally it isn't that hard to hit with Ranged Touch normally, but still this amount of upgrade seems excessive. What happens when a character has Improved Critical (Ranged Spell) and uses this ability? Does the Threat Range increase further, or just not change at all? Metamagic effects tend to alter the spell in some significant way, not tweak the abilities of the caster to deliver the spell. I can sort of see a case for something like "Seeking Spell" that grants a bonus of maybe half your relevant modifier rounded down on an attack roll, assuming it will follow the target around a bit, but that's about it... I am very conservative with inventing mechanics though, and am operating without sleep as I write this, so take my opinions as you will.I never take constructive criticism badly, after all Im operating with little sleep as well :) . If you feel that the feat is too powerful as a +2 modifier, then would you recommend a +3? That just comes off as a little too much for me. See what you think of my edited version in the next post.
Osedox 08-08-07, 02:40 PM	GUIDED RAY [METAMAGIC] You can modify your ray spells so that they are capable of dealing grievous wounds almost never miss. You can alter any (Effect: Ray) spell with this feat. You gain an insight bonus to hit with your ray equal to your primary spell casting ability modifier which replaces your Dexterity modifier. The spells critical range is also increased to 18-20x2. Other effects that modify the critical range of rays do not stack with this feat. A spell that has multiple rays like Scorching ray only gains the benefit of this feat for one of the rays. For example a 10th level Sorcerer with a Charisma of 18 and a dexterity of 14 uses this feat to cast a Guided Ray Scorching Ray His normal to Hit of +7 is replaced by +9 for one of the rays and that ray also has a threat range of 18-20 x2, the other ray is at a +7 to hit and has a critical range of 20x2. A ray spell modified by this feat uses up a spell slot 2 levels higher than normal.
Osedox 08-09-07, 05:19 PM	Any other comments?
Kouk 08-09-07, 06:53 PM	GUIDED RAY [METAMAGIC] You can modify your ray spells so that they are capable of dealing grievous wounds almost never miss. You can alter any (Effect: Ray) spell with this feat. You gain an insight bonus to hit with your ray equal to your primary spell casting ability modifier which replaces your Dexterity modifier. The spells critical range is also increased to 18-20x2. Other effects that modify the critical range of rays do not stack with this feat. A spell that has multiple rays like Scorching ray only gains the benefit of this feat for one of the rays. For example a 10th level Sorcerer with a Charisma of 18 and a dexterity of 14 uses this feat to cast a Guided Ray Scorching Ray His normal to Hit of +7 is replaced by +9 for one of the rays and that ray also has a threat range of 18-20 x2, the other ray is at a +7 to hit and has a critical range of 20x2. A ray spell modified by this feat uses up a spell slot 2 levels higher than normal. Well, that certainly seems better to me. I think you should do away with the "insight bonus" language, and just use language similar to Weapon Finesse, "You may use your relevant ability modifier (INT for Wizards, CHA for Sorcerers, and WIS for Clerics etc.) instead of your Dexterity modifier for this attack roll", so in case a caster actually has a higher DEX than his prime modifier for some reason, he is not actually penalized on his attack roll. You should also make it abundantly clear that the crit range increase and attack roll bonus applies only to a spell modified with that feat (so rules lawyers people don't think it is just some kind of permanent change). I still think it should have some prerequisites, probably WF: (Ranged Spell) at least. And I never find Weapon Focus to be a waste for anything; extra chance to hit is extra chance to do damage or otherwise be effective...
Osedox 08-10-07, 02:53 AM	Well, that certainly seems better to me. I think you should do away with the "insight bonus" language, and just use language similar to Weapon Finesse, "You may use your relevant ability modifier (INT for Wizards, CHA for Sorcerers, and WIS for Clerics etc.) instead of your Dexterity modifier for this attack roll", so in case a caster actually has a higher DEX than his prime modifier for some reason, he is not actually penalized on his attack roll. You should also make it abundantly clear that the crit range increase and attack roll bonus applies only to a spell modified with that feat (so rules lawyers people don't think it is just some kind of permanent change). I still think it should have some prerequisites, probably WF: (Ranged Spell) at least. And I never find Weapon Focus to be a waste for anything; extra chance to hit is extra chance to do damage or otherwise be effective...Your probably right about the insight bonus wording. Since when has a metamagic feat ever permanently changed a spell?
Kouk 08-10-07, 01:29 PM	Your probably right about the insight bonus wording. Since when has a metamagic feat ever permanently changed a spell? They don't, I am just suggesting clarifying the language to head off any future problems from rule-breakers or rule-not-quite-understanders (newbies).
Osedox 08-10-07, 03:17 PM	They don't, I am just suggesting clarifying the language to head off any future problems from rule-breakers or rule-not-quite-understanders (newbies).Im at a loss of how to word something like that, but if you feel the need to edit it, then you can do so.