Noble Birth? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Noble Birth? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
HoodoftheGreen
12-17-07, 08:01 PM I'm not sure this is the right place but I assume it is.

I was wondering how you represent Noble Birth for a character, search as I have I have only heard vague references of a Feat in some old Dragon Issue, though there is that class in one of the Dragonlance books, I forget which now that seems similar. Is there a Feat or such that would allow for this? And if so what are the actual benefits. I'm surprised its not covered in more core material as I would have thought sons and daughters of nobles or heroes that are secretly of royal blood are common characters in fantasy.
Aryxbez
12-18-07, 01:00 AM In the DMG, there is the NPC class the Aristrocrat. they are not as sissy as you would believe. They can wield martial weapons, and good skills, and besides the 3/4 bab, I would say they're better than the warrior NPC class.

Also represent it in the story of the PC, allowing him political positions of power, so his word means something. Also in that story, could get extra money from his family or to "borrow" so to buy his friends out of jail for example.
navar100
12-18-07, 02:04 AM As long as you don't abuse it by trying to get freebies such as extra goldpieces to buy equipment or free magic items, you can work with the DM as to let it be background. It can allow for a few perks such as easier access to speak with authority figures, similar to how a rogue might have an easier time dealing with the black market than a cleric of Pelor.

You can also have NPC wealth. When staying at an inn in the nation for which you are a noble, you get to have the finest room and meals. Your character doesn't get charged, rather it's considered the cost of business of being a noble. Your family may have a word with you if you indulge too much and you can't just buy any expensive jewelry without actual character wealth, but some luxury living in itself is fine.

If you want a more direct benefit for being a noble, then take Leadership feat. Your followers can be not only household staff but also individuals of importance yet lower rank than your noble status. A particular tavern owner may allow you free meals and drinks. A merchant wants to boast of being associated with you and your family so he'll give you discounts. Your cohort can be your official bodyguard. You could develop this more in play by earning an official Title. Defending the realm through your adventuring can allow you to become a Knight or Baron or Count, etc. You can then get the incidentals of noble living in other nations friendly to yours.
sapient
12-19-07, 11:19 AM Throw in a free rank or two of Knowledge (Nobility and royalty) and maybe a few extra gold pieces. But it doesn't have to be much money - throughout the middle ages many noble families didn't have much cash at their disposal. Their wealth lay in the land they owned and the power they wielded. But being landed required that much of the capital gained was reinvested every year. And from the net profit, all expenses for the large household and the obligations the nobility had to fullfil (such as fielding troops for their leige lord) had to be drawn.

A succesful merchant would probably have more cash on his hands than the son of lesser baron or a knight.

After that, it is all in the charcter development. Since nobility was so much about prestige, there are a lot of options that shouldn't be available since "the gentry just wouldn't do that". But exactly which ones, should probably be molded to fit your campaign.
InkBlot
12-19-07, 02:29 PM It's mostly a roleplaying thing. You use all the normal character resources.

Your starting wealth is the same, but represents only what your "adventuring allowance" rather than the entire worth of your estate and family.

You put max ranks into diplomacy or intimidate, so you can get the peasents to cooperate with you either out of loyalty or out of fear. You put at least a ranks into knowledge (nobility). Take a feat like Skill Focus, Negotiator, or Persuasive if you must.

At 6th level, take Leadership.

Take a class that reflects the kind noble upbringing you recieved: bard, for all long hours of the magic lessons, fencing lessons, etiquite lessons, diplomacy lessons, history lessons, and music lessons that you had to sit through; rogue for un upbringing that focused on practical people skills, deadly precision sword-work, and how to escape/survive being captured by the neighboring country's evil overlord; ranger for a royal upbringing spent hunting game in the king's forest; barbarian for a total rebel, or a noble from a primitive kingdom; et cetera.

If you have access to Eberron Campaign Setting, you could use the Educated feat and the Favored In The House feat. The first gives you all knowledge skills as class skills, making it easier to put ranks in knowledge (nobility), knowledge (local), and knowledge (history). The later allows you to gain favors from your noble/mercantile house, up to the equivilant of certain value of gold (I'm fuzzy on the details).

Playing the son or daughter of a noble would work from level 1 with the above advice. A real king would be problematic, due to the vast resources you could command. You would have to start the game at a higher level in order to play a king, so that your character wealth matches what a king would logically have at his disposal.
1 ton ghost
12-20-07, 12:28 PM it is expressed randomly via roll (character gen option) in Cityscape and/or Uneathed Arcana. much like 2nd ed. i guess, but mechanically much different.
from what i remember via Cityscape, you progress as normal and all, however, some skills are generally more accessible or added to your class(es) list reflecting socio-economic upbringing. think there might be somethign for extra $, but there's always a balance. unfair to have "Thurston", the priviledged Yalie boy knight vs. "Shunk" the g-thug 1/2 orc from the ghetto have all the cash and influence while the socially disadvantaged one gets nothing in exchange.

skillwise-Diplomacy and Know. Nobility are definetly on the rich end while more menial labors/blue collar skills are on the opposite end of the spectrum. Craft and the like. some close approximations in Oriental Adventures too given what they consider honorable/noble vs. what the peasantry would.
Darth Sephiroth
12-25-07, 08:13 PM The Dragonlance Noble is in the Dragonlance Campaign setting book and is pretty decent as a class being a beefed up Aristocrat. It's very similar to the Star Wars (OCR) Noble.

Also the Marshal works pretty well for covering Nobility.

Also the right choice of skills and feats can let you play a character from a noble family. Knowledge (Nobility) is a good choice. Also go for things that let you lead. Aura of Courage is another good one to have. Several feats can cover other things, modifying the Ancestral Relic to fit any alignment and covering an inherited piece of equipment including things like your fathers sword or similar.

In the end, however, playing nobility is more of an attitude rather than a game mechanic. Also remember that a noble's loyalty should be to their family and people for the most part as well as their superiors.
Taeldrin Laesrash
12-25-07, 08:56 PM For the record, the feat the OP mentioned is in Dragon 333 (And is decent overall in talking about why noble PCs are adventuring, although it makes the character's background too much of a plot point). It gets you a small skill bonus, although you've spent a feat. Talk with your DM about any benefits, since nobility is very varied (You may be from a popular but dirt-poor house, or a family presumed dead that controls the world).
runestar
12-25-07, 09:49 PM PGTF has a mercantile background feat which gives you extra 300gp starting gold, and lets you buy and sell magic items at 75% market price (as opposed to 100% and 50% respectively) 1/month.:)

I am not sure what sort of noble you wish to play though...:P
ragoftag
12-27-07, 06:30 PM You could always beef up Aristocrat to full Class status by increasing things like their social skills or having a set of 'Noble' feats that juice the connections angle. I strongly advise against 'Princess Pouty Lips' and her GFs. No country is going to let the Heir wander about bopping monsters. Exceptions are more likely to be where you have to have the rep among those who actually select the next king, and 'great hero' is a career enhancer.
Leress
12-27-07, 10:52 PM I would recommend the pdf "Quintessential Aristocrat" by Mongoose Publishing, it is very good, and deal completely with the Aristocrat NPC and making it PC worthy.

Now here is a class variant that you can apply to make it more in the noble stature.

Level 1
Lose: starting gold, HD is reduce by one die (minimum d4), BAB is reduced one category (minimum Poor), any class ability gain at first is now gained at second level.

Gains: starting gold of the Aristocrat (6d8x10gp), Speak Language and Knowledge (nobility) as a class skill even if you multi-class, 2 additional skill points per level.

You could also use this template...for a quick and dirty fix.
http://www.wakinglands.com/htm_files/the_templates_page.htm
sapient
12-28-07, 06:37 AM Hit die and BAB should probably be adapted to the kind of setting you have. If it has some kind of feudal theme, many aristocrats would be acomplished fighters.

I have a campaign (though not started yet, some time after new years) based on ancient China, where I include Aristocrat as a player class. It has low BAB and HD, since it this setting it emulates a court official or local noble that had soldiers do all the fighting. They have most knowledge skills, Perform (caligraphy) and other Perform skills.

They also have a special skill I have invented, Profession (administration). (But I don't expect any player that chooses this class to actually invest any skill points in it...) This skill is used to cover the mundane tasks of ruling a province. Making logistical, judicial and other decisions. It can be used, like other professions or craft-skills, to make a living. But the reason I invented it in the first place, was for a different campaign where it would have mattered more.

That campaign was set in ancient Rome. The players could choose to be young noble men, in which case they could compete for office in the way Rome would traditionally allow. And then Profession (administration) would come into play when they were sent to work in a Roman province somewhere.

Those aristocrats, in the roman campaign, certainly didn't have a low HD or BAB. They were on par with the fighter (legionnaires) and former gladiators. But they had other kinds of feats and abilities, reflecting their aristocratic birth as well as their training in other than martial matters.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
HoodoftheGreen 12-17-07, 08:01 PM	I'm not sure this is the right place but I assume it is. I was wondering how you represent Noble Birth for a character, search as I have I have only heard vague references of a Feat in some old Dragon Issue, though there is that class in one of the Dragonlance books, I forget which now that seems similar. Is there a Feat or such that would allow for this? And if so what are the actual benefits. I'm surprised its not covered in more core material as I would have thought sons and daughters of nobles or heroes that are secretly of royal blood are common characters in fantasy.
Aryxbez 12-18-07, 01:00 AM	In the DMG, there is the NPC class the Aristrocrat. they are not as sissy as you would believe. They can wield martial weapons, and good skills, and besides the 3/4 bab, I would say they're better than the warrior NPC class. Also represent it in the story of the PC, allowing him political positions of power, so his word means something. Also in that story, could get extra money from his family or to "borrow" so to buy his friends out of jail for example.
navar100 12-18-07, 02:04 AM	As long as you don't abuse it by trying to get freebies such as extra goldpieces to buy equipment or free magic items, you can work with the DM as to let it be background. It can allow for a few perks such as easier access to speak with authority figures, similar to how a rogue might have an easier time dealing with the black market than a cleric of Pelor. You can also have NPC wealth. When staying at an inn in the nation for which you are a noble, you get to have the finest room and meals. Your character doesn't get charged, rather it's considered the cost of business of being a noble. Your family may have a word with you if you indulge too much and you can't just buy any expensive jewelry without actual character wealth, but some luxury living in itself is fine. If you want a more direct benefit for being a noble, then take Leadership feat. Your followers can be not only household staff but also individuals of importance yet lower rank than your noble status. A particular tavern owner may allow you free meals and drinks. A merchant wants to boast of being associated with you and your family so he'll give you discounts. Your cohort can be your official bodyguard. You could develop this more in play by earning an official Title. Defending the realm through your adventuring can allow you to become a Knight or Baron or Count, etc. You can then get the incidentals of noble living in other nations friendly to yours.
sapient 12-19-07, 11:19 AM	Throw in a free rank or two of Knowledge (Nobility and royalty) and maybe a few extra gold pieces. But it doesn't have to be much money - throughout the middle ages many noble families didn't have much cash at their disposal. Their wealth lay in the land they owned and the power they wielded. But being landed required that much of the capital gained was reinvested every year. And from the net profit, all expenses for the large household and the obligations the nobility had to fullfil (such as fielding troops for their leige lord) had to be drawn. A succesful merchant would probably have more cash on his hands than the son of lesser baron or a knight. After that, it is all in the charcter development. Since nobility was so much about prestige, there are a lot of options that shouldn't be available since "the gentry just wouldn't do that". But exactly which ones, should probably be molded to fit your campaign.
InkBlot 12-19-07, 02:29 PM	It's mostly a roleplaying thing. You use all the normal character resources. Your starting wealth is the same, but represents only what your "adventuring allowance" rather than the entire worth of your estate and family. You put max ranks into diplomacy or intimidate, so you can get the peasents to cooperate with you either out of loyalty or out of fear. You put at least a ranks into knowledge (nobility). Take a feat like Skill Focus, Negotiator, or Persuasive if you must. At 6th level, take Leadership. Take a class that reflects the kind noble upbringing you recieved: bard, for all long hours of the magic lessons, fencing lessons, etiquite lessons, diplomacy lessons, history lessons, and music lessons that you had to sit through; rogue for un upbringing that focused on practical people skills, deadly precision sword-work, and how to escape/survive being captured by the neighboring country's evil overlord; ranger for a royal upbringing spent hunting game in the king's forest; barbarian for a total rebel, or a noble from a primitive kingdom; et cetera. If you have access to Eberron Campaign Setting, you could use the Educated feat and the Favored In The House feat. The first gives you all knowledge skills as class skills, making it easier to put ranks in knowledge (nobility), knowledge (local), and knowledge (history). The later allows you to gain favors from your noble/mercantile house, up to the equivilant of certain value of gold (I'm fuzzy on the details). Playing the son or daughter of a noble would work from level 1 with the above advice. A real king would be problematic, due to the vast resources you could command. You would have to start the game at a higher level in order to play a king, so that your character wealth matches what a king would logically have at his disposal.
1 ton ghost 12-20-07, 12:28 PM	it is expressed randomly via roll (character gen option) in Cityscape and/or Uneathed Arcana. much like 2nd ed. i guess, but mechanically much different. from what i remember via Cityscape, you progress as normal and all, however, some skills are generally more accessible or added to your class(es) list reflecting socio-economic upbringing. think there might be somethign for extra $, but there's always a balance. unfair to have "Thurston", the priviledged Yalie boy knight vs. "Shunk" the g-thug 1/2 orc from the ghetto have all the cash and influence while the socially disadvantaged one gets nothing in exchange. skillwise-Diplomacy and Know. Nobility are definetly on the rich end while more menial labors/blue collar skills are on the opposite end of the spectrum. Craft and the like. some close approximations in Oriental Adventures too given what they consider honorable/noble vs. what the peasantry would.
Darth Sephiroth 12-25-07, 08:13 PM	The Dragonlance Noble is in the Dragonlance Campaign setting book and is pretty decent as a class being a beefed up Aristocrat. It's very similar to the Star Wars (OCR) Noble. Also the Marshal works pretty well for covering Nobility. Also the right choice of skills and feats can let you play a character from a noble family. Knowledge (Nobility) is a good choice. Also go for things that let you lead. Aura of Courage is another good one to have. Several feats can cover other things, modifying the Ancestral Relic to fit any alignment and covering an inherited piece of equipment including things like your fathers sword or similar. In the end, however, playing nobility is more of an attitude rather than a game mechanic. Also remember that a noble's loyalty should be to their family and people for the most part as well as their superiors.
Taeldrin Laesrash 12-25-07, 08:56 PM	For the record, the feat the OP mentioned is in Dragon 333 (And is decent overall in talking about why noble PCs are adventuring, although it makes the character's background too much of a plot point). It gets you a small skill bonus, although you've spent a feat. Talk with your DM about any benefits, since nobility is very varied (You may be from a popular but dirt-poor house, or a family presumed dead that controls the world).
runestar 12-25-07, 09:49 PM	PGTF has a mercantile background feat which gives you extra 300gp starting gold, and lets you buy and sell magic items at 75% market price (as opposed to 100% and 50% respectively) 1/month.:) I am not sure what sort of noble you wish to play though...:P
ragoftag 12-27-07, 06:30 PM	You could always beef up Aristocrat to full Class status by increasing things like their social skills or having a set of 'Noble' feats that juice the connections angle. I strongly advise against 'Princess Pouty Lips' and her GFs. No country is going to let the Heir wander about bopping monsters. Exceptions are more likely to be where you have to have the rep among those who actually select the next king, and 'great hero' is a career enhancer.
Leress 12-27-07, 10:52 PM	I would recommend the pdf "Quintessential Aristocrat" by Mongoose Publishing, it is very good, and deal completely with the Aristocrat NPC and making it PC worthy. Now here is a class variant that you can apply to make it more in the noble stature. Level 1 Lose: starting gold, HD is reduce by one die (minimum d4), BAB is reduced one category (minimum Poor), any class ability gain at first is now gained at second level. Gains: starting gold of the Aristocrat (6d8x10gp), Speak Language and Knowledge (nobility) as a class skill even if you multi-class, 2 additional skill points per level. You could also use this template...for a quick and dirty fix. http://www.wakinglands.com/htm_files/the_templates_page.htm
sapient 12-28-07, 06:37 AM	Hit die and BAB should probably be adapted to the kind of setting you have. If it has some kind of feudal theme, many aristocrats would be acomplished fighters. I have a campaign (though not started yet, some time after new years) based on ancient China, where I include Aristocrat as a player class. It has low BAB and HD, since it this setting it emulates a court official or local noble that had soldiers do all the fighting. They have most knowledge skills, Perform (caligraphy) and other Perform skills. They also have a special skill I have invented, Profession (administration). (But I don't expect any player that chooses this class to actually invest any skill points in it...) This skill is used to cover the mundane tasks of ruling a province. Making logistical, judicial and other decisions. It can be used, like other professions or craft-skills, to make a living. But the reason I invented it in the first place, was for a different campaign where it would have mattered more. That campaign was set in ancient Rome. The players could choose to be young noble men, in which case they could compete for office in the way Rome would traditionally allow. And then Profession (administration) would come into play when they were sent to work in a Roman province somewhere. Those aristocrats, in the roman campaign, certainly didn't have a low HD or BAB. They were on par with the fighter (legionnaires) and former gladiators. But they had other kinds of feats and abilities, reflecting their aristocratic birth as well as their training in other than martial matters.