One does not simply tumble into Mordor. [Archive] - Wizards Community

One does not simply tumble into Mordor. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
T_Stalker
10-18-07, 04:13 PM Inspired by this (http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=9868)picture.

First of all, it would be frikkin awesome.
But, while I was IM'ing with my DM, it dawned on me that actually as a Rogue 1/Wiz4/Unseen Seer 1, IC I am practically a ninja wizard.
Now childish images of a black clad man, doing back flips and chopping of heads are going through my mind. Which made me wonder:

How many ranks or what DC does it take to move (at half ) your speed doing back flips (and other stunts) along the way?

Unfortunately I am aware this might require a few ranks in jump as well.
Krusk
10-18-07, 04:47 PM The DC to move at 1/2 your speed tumbling without provoking AOO's is only a DC 15 tumble check. Generally Pcs are free to describe tumbling in any way they want, flips, jumps rolls, cartwheels, whatever.

From the phb "you can dive, roll, somersault, flip, and so on"

This DC changes based on a ton of diffrent conditions though, so its useful to look.
T_Stalker
10-18-07, 04:56 PM Oh, thanks.
Was looking at d20srd, which just gives the explanation "tumble" past opponents. My PHB was all the way across the room. Indeed has a much more graphic description.

Thanks again.
StevenO
10-18-07, 06:23 PM You must have some VERY good stats to take Rogue1/Wizard4 into Unseen Seer. It is almost possible with a starting INT 18 (or 16 if human) but you'd still be a couple skill points short of meeting the Seer's entry requirement. A Human with an INT 18 could do it but still wouldn't have many extra points to spend after starting with Rogue.

I figured the above out when someone tried pointing out that a Rog1/Wiz4/USeer1 could enter Arcane Trickster at 7th level instead of the usual 8th or 9th. While it may look possible on paper, if the skill points needed are figured correctly it is all but impossible barring an insane starting INT or using some other rules.

As for the actual motion mentioned it would most likely fall under the Tumble skill.
Merestil Haye
10-18-07, 07:51 PM You must have some VERY good stats to take Rogue1/Wizard4 into Unseen Seer. It is almost possible with a starting INT 18 (or 16 if human) but you'd still be a couple skill points short of meeting the Seer's entry requirement.You can do it with a 12 Int, but only if you're human.

At first level, take the Able Learner feat.

If you take Rogue at 1st level to get 4 points in Hide, Search, Sense Motive and Spot (plus other class skills of your choice), then you need 1 point per level from your four Wizard levels in Hide, Search, Spot and Spellcraft.
T_Stalker
10-19-07, 04:02 AM And that's exactly how I did it.
I first wanted to go with Strongheart Halfling, but with a roll of 17 for Int (which was my only decent roll for the char) the skills didn't work out. So a visit to the CO boards later I had everything I needed ;)
StevenO
10-19-07, 02:55 PM I have heard of Able Learner but don't own the source which is why I didn't mention it as the one possible exception. I do believe that even with that feat it would be very difficult to manage Arcane Trickster at 7th level still.

A visit to the CO boards is certainly a way to figure out if something can be done and if so how. Just remember that some of those builds rely on material a DM may not allow or require judgement calls to go a certain way.
Merestil Haye
10-19-07, 04:54 PM I have heard of Able Learner but don't own the source which is why I didn't mention it as the one possible exception. I do believe that even with that feat it would be very difficult to manage Arcane Trickster at 7th level still.No, not really. You need to be planning it from level 1 because your 1st level skillpicks have to be made with an eye to meeting the AT prereqs. It works out that you need 14 Int for your human to get AT at 7th level. This allows you to take Know (Arcana) with your Wizard levels inn addition to the skills mentioned before, and the 9 points you get at US1 go on Decipher Script, Disable Device and Escape Artist, which with 4 ranks each from first level gets you all the prereqs.

And you've still got some of your 1st level skill points to spend on other Rogue skills.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
T_Stalker 10-18-07, 04:13 PM	Inspired by this (http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=9868)picture. First of all, it would be frikkin awesome. But, while I was IM'ing with my DM, it dawned on me that actually as a Rogue 1/Wiz4/Unseen Seer 1, IC I am practically a ninja wizard. Now childish images of a black clad man, doing back flips and chopping of heads are going through my mind. Which made me wonder: How many ranks or what DC does it take to move (at half ) your speed doing back flips (and other stunts) along the way? Unfortunately I am aware this might require a few ranks in jump as well.
Krusk 10-18-07, 04:47 PM	The DC to move at 1/2 your speed tumbling without provoking AOO's is only a DC 15 tumble check. Generally Pcs are free to describe tumbling in any way they want, flips, jumps rolls, cartwheels, whatever. From the phb "you can dive, roll, somersault, flip, and so on" This DC changes based on a ton of diffrent conditions though, so its useful to look.
T_Stalker 10-18-07, 04:56 PM	Oh, thanks. Was looking at d20srd, which just gives the explanation "tumble" past opponents. My PHB was all the way across the room. Indeed has a much more graphic description. Thanks again.
StevenO 10-18-07, 06:23 PM	You must have some VERY good stats to take Rogue1/Wizard4 into Unseen Seer. It is almost possible with a starting INT 18 (or 16 if human) but you'd still be a couple skill points short of meeting the Seer's entry requirement. A Human with an INT 18 could do it but still wouldn't have many extra points to spend after starting with Rogue. I figured the above out when someone tried pointing out that a Rog1/Wiz4/USeer1 could enter Arcane Trickster at 7th level instead of the usual 8th or 9th. While it may look possible on paper, if the skill points needed are figured correctly it is all but impossible barring an insane starting INT or using some other rules. As for the actual motion mentioned it would most likely fall under the Tumble skill.
Merestil Haye 10-18-07, 07:51 PM	You must have some VERY good stats to take Rogue1/Wizard4 into Unseen Seer. It is almost possible with a starting INT 18 (or 16 if human) but you'd still be a couple skill points short of meeting the Seer's entry requirement.You can do it with a 12 Int, but only if you're human. At first level, take the Able Learner feat. If you take Rogue at 1st level to get 4 points in Hide, Search, Sense Motive and Spot (plus other class skills of your choice), then you need 1 point per level from your four Wizard levels in Hide, Search, Spot and Spellcraft.
T_Stalker 10-19-07, 04:02 AM	And that's exactly how I did it. I first wanted to go with Strongheart Halfling, but with a roll of 17 for Int (which was my only decent roll for the char) the skills didn't work out. So a visit to the CO boards later I had everything I needed ;)
StevenO 10-19-07, 02:55 PM	I have heard of Able Learner but don't own the source which is why I didn't mention it as the one possible exception. I do believe that even with that feat it would be very difficult to manage Arcane Trickster at 7th level still. A visit to the CO boards is certainly a way to figure out if something can be done and if so how. Just remember that some of those builds rely on material a DM may not allow or require judgement calls to go a certain way.
Merestil Haye 10-19-07, 04:54 PM	I have heard of Able Learner but don't own the source which is why I didn't mention it as the one possible exception. I do believe that even with that feat it would be very difficult to manage Arcane Trickster at 7th level still.No, not really. You need to be planning it from level 1 because your 1st level skillpicks have to be made with an eye to meeting the AT prereqs. It works out that you need 14 Int for your human to get AT at 7th level. This allows you to take Know (Arcana) with your Wizard levels inn addition to the skills mentioned before, and the 9 points you get at US1 go on Decipher Script, Disable Device and Escape Artist, which with 4 ranks each from first level gets you all the prereqs. And you've still got some of your 1st level skill points to spend on other Rogue skills.