Post/Author/DateTime	Post
therogen 03-16-08, 03:05 AM	In a recent campaign my character (A rogue) was opening a lock and successfully opened it with a 37. Now at that point the NPC on the other side swung the door open as he heard me unlock the door. So I am just looking for some kind of confirmation on this I guess. Does the NPC even get a listen check for the open lock? If he does what can I do to negate that? Thanks for a speedy reply.
Vegepygmy 03-16-08, 03:07 AM	IMO, it calls for a DC 15 Listen check.
Tsuul 03-16-08, 03:56 AM	Probably a wee bit harder then the check to hear someone quickly moving to the door from the other side...
herrdoktor 03-16-08, 07:30 AM	it seems to me that this would partly depend on how much you beat the DC by - i.e harder listen DC if it was a simple lock (since you beat the DC by 17) than for good lock (beat by 7) personally, i think that it's kind of bs to give them a listen check (at least an easy one)
blade265 03-16-08, 07:42 AM	To me it wouldn't require a listen check. I suppose you would need to take into consideration how close the NPC was to the door. If the NPC was right behind the door they shouldn't need to make a listen check but if they were across the room they would need to make a check to hear the lock being picked.
Jovknee 03-16-08, 07:58 AM	What you could try is have a starting DC at 15. Then +2 for every 10' away the NPC is to the door. And +1 to the Listen check for every point the player beats the DC by.
Baninor 03-16-08, 08:20 AM	Well I can't seem to find any such rule (At least in the Core and Complete Books) Theres 3 ways of handling this 1: (DM is a jackass way) Easy to hear open lock makes lots of noise 2: Oppose Move Silently with Listen 3: Oppose Open Lock with Listen Alright Technically theres a 4th, which ties into 1 and 2 Take a -10 (or -5) on Open Lock so that you can do it Silently (Oppose Move Silently with Listen)
Kouk 03-16-08, 10:48 PM	Seems to be a double post, sorry. See below.
Kouk 03-16-08, 10:50 PM	I think it kind of depends on the nature of the lock and the NPC's relative position to said lock. Which basically means: DM decides. There aren't really much in the way of rules for this, but there are not rules for a lot of things. If it is a simple lock to like a wooden door in an inn, it will most likely make a small "click" sound. If the people in the room you are breaking into are asleep, probably no chance of hearing it (-10 Listen while asleep after all). If the people in the room are making a lot of noise, partying and drinking heavily, probably not a great chance of them hearing the door being unlocked. If the people inside are silently waiting on either side of the door, ready and expecting someone to break in to their room any moment, probably a good darn chance they hear the door unlock, if not your party on the other side. Depending on the nature of the lock, things also can vary. Is the lock really small like a luggage lock or jewelry case lock? Or maybe is it 5 feet tall and made up of multiple interlocking metal bars, pulley systems and gears, and unlocking it causes the entire thing to automatically lift into the air with the giant stone door it is attached to? Don't forget the similar situation of the door itself making noise when you open it. Squeaky hinges, stuck doors, rubble on the other side of the door etc. A rusty portcullis is going to most likely make a good bit of noise regardless of your Open Lock check after all... Given these possibilities, your are well within your rights to ask about the nature of the lock and the door you are dealing with. Sounds can be negated with the mundane, such as oiling rusty old hinges, to the magical such as using a Silence spell. EDIT: P.S.: Always Listen at a dungeon door before you try to open it. You can learn of what is on the other side in advance.
StruckingFuggle 03-17-08, 12:21 AM	I suppose you would need to take into consideration how close the NPC was to the door. Considering the skill description itself says that checks get harder of distance, you always should take that into consideration, yes.
Nathreet 03-17-08, 12:33 AM	Specifically it's a -1 per 10' of distance and a -4 if the NPC isn't paying attention. This applies to all listen and spot checks, btw. I'd say DC 5 is reasonable. Any attentive person standing near the door would hear it. But if he's 20' away and not paying attention, or even sleeping right next to the door, he won't hear it. If it's clunky then the DC might be lower. In either case, no matter how quiet your hands are the lock will click. I'd say it requires an extra high open lock check to oil it, know where to push, etc. to make the lock quieter to increase the listen DC. Not MS. Maybe for every point by which you beat the open lock DC, you add 1 to the listen DC.
Kouk 03-17-08, 01:23 AM	Specifically it's a -1 per 10' of distance and a -4 if the NPC isn't paying attention. This applies to all listen and spot checks, btw. I don't know where you are getting a -4 penalty for "not paying attention". The only -4 penalty listed is for when a creature is Fascinated, as by the spell effect. There is a -5 penalty (or rather, a +5 bonus on the check DC) if the listener is "distracted" -- but having your attention totally focused on listening to something else is not the same as not intentionally trying to hear someone opening the door. In any case, "Listener Distracted" is not clearly defined.
Nathreet 03-17-08, 02:50 AM	It's -5 then, for being distracted. In practice that should often be the same, but better to stick to "distracted".