Other uses for social skills - Social Manuvers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Other uses for social skills - Social Manuvers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rhuxley
02-20-07, 03:34 PM The point of this is to add more depth to a diplomacy roll, and to make social inereactions more interesting for players. Here are some examples I came up with for use in "Social Combat". Keep in mind that this system is mainly for people who run political intrigue campaigns, or those who would like to add depth to negotiations.

Social Maneuvers:

Sly Insinuation: You say one thing, and mean another. Slyly cutting down your opponent by insinuating. Bluff vs. Sense Motive, you gain a +2 to future attacks on your opponents character. (Bluff DC to deny use of this maneuver is +5) Action: 1 action

Smear Campaign: You openly smear your opponents character. Opposed Diplomacy Checks, (Bluff checks may be necessary, if either side is lying) move audience members attitudes of your opponent 1 step toward hostile**, and Reduce reputation* 1 point. Action: 1 action

Expose Lie: If you beat an opponents bluff with your sense motive to catch them in a lie, you announce it loudly in front of everyone in attendance. You force your opponent to reroll her last bluff check. All future bluff checks are at a -5 to all who see through this lie. Against all who believe her however, her bluff checks are at a +5. Action: 1 action

Threaten: You openly threaten your opponent, either physicly, or otherwise. Make a standard Intimidate check. If you pass, this ends the social encounter, and they are helpful to your cause. If you fail, they gain a +2 to all opposed rolls against you for the durration of the encounter. Special: If you have a guard in attendance you gain +2 to physical threats. If you have a reputation of being cruel you gain a +2 to this roll. The subject of this maneuvers attitude toward you changes 1 step toward hostile** after the effects wear off. Action: 1 action

The Apple Doesn't Fall far From the Tree: You compare your opponent to one of his disgraced ancestors. Make knowledge (nobility & royalty) check, DC 20. At this point if you do not pass(or fail by 5 or more), you must either lie, or change tactics. You then make opposed diplomacy checks (bluff checks may also be necessary). Special: If either combatants fail their knowledge 5 or more, they make a false comparison, the exact ramifications are up to the DM. Action: 1 action

Quip: You make a direct quick rude reference to something about your opponent. Make a Perform (Comedy) opposed by your opponents sense motive. If you win, your opponent is dazed for 1 round, plus 1 round for every 5 by which your beat her.

Gentle Perusasion: You try persuading your opponent to see your point of view. This works just like a regular use of the diplomacy check.

Forceful Interogation: You begin demanding questions of your opponent, in such a forceful manner, she easily gets confused and spouts out the wrong answers. Intimidation vs. Sense Motive. If you win, your opponent is dazed for 1 round, and can take no actions other than to answer your questions after which she is shaken for a number of rounds equal to your cha modifier. Special: You have a -5 to all densive skill checks until your next action. If you opponent fails her check by 5 or more, she spouts out the wrong answer, she recieves a -5 to bluff checks to defend that mistake.

Expose Flaw: You make a very rude statement about your opponent in front of all in attendance. Make a Perform (Comedy) opposed by your opponents sense motive. If you win, your opponent is stunned for 1 round, and is dazed for 1 round for every 5 by which your beat her. Special: You have a -5 to all densive skill checks until your next action. Your opponents attitute toward you moves one step toward hostile**.

Huge Lie: You come up with a whopper of a proclaimation. The very improbability of the claim acts as people will assume that someone of your reputation would never make such a claim unless it were true. Bluff vs. Sense Motive (+10 bonus). Your opponent loses 1 reputaion with anyone who failed their check, move audience members attitudes of your opponent 1 step toward hostile**. You lose 1 reputaion with anyone who passed their check, move audience members attitudes toward you 1 step toward hostile**. If your opponent sucessfully uses "Expose Lie" against you while targeting this lie she gains back her reputation*, and you lose 1 reputation*.

Dazzling Rhetoric: You attempt to dazzle your audience with your magnificent display of rhetorical situations. Perform (Oratory) vs. Sense Motive. Success indicates you get your point across, your next maneuver is at a +2 bonus, plus 1 for every 5 by which your check exceeded your opponent. Failure means you take a -1 penalty to next maneuver, since you confused your opponent.

Point of Order: You point out a breach of etiquette made by your opponent durring the discussion. Knowledge (local) DC: <special>, to identify the issue, and bring attention to it. Your opponent is then forced by local customs to appologize, and lose her next action, or risk seeming even more out of line. Special: This maneuver is only available after your opponent fails her knowledge(local) check, and makes a breach of etiquette. If your opponent makes a social skill roll for her next action, she recieves a -2 penalty to persuade audience members for the durration of the encounter.

Boast: You boast about something you are good at relevant to the situation, citing some knowledge you have on the subject. Knowledge (applicable skill) vs DC: 20. You gain a +1 to next check regarding this subject as well a +1 for every 5 by which your check beat the DC. Failure by 5 or more nets a -1 penalty. Special: Alternatively a bluff check opposed by either a sense motive, or a knowledge (same skill) achieves the same result.

Other actions: Aid Another provides the usual bonus, Aim provides a +1 bonus if a round is spent contemplating the next action, Distract works like flanking, providing a +2 for every character actively attacking the same opponent.

*Reputation is a variant, like honour. If you dont use that variant, then ignore that effect, or change the attitude of the audience toward that person by 1 step toward hostile**.

**A suggestion: if their attitude ever turns hostile, nobles would be more apt to chalenge someone to a duel, or have them removed from the court room than actually attack someone outright. Keep in mind that these people have appearances to keep up as well.

Here is an example of its use:
DM: You walk up to Sir Edward, who today is wearing a wide brimmed hat, with giant plumage. He is talking to that noble girl you've been trying to impress, Sarah. Edward sees you coming, and greets you with a bow, removing his hat.
Player: Damn, I hate that guy. I wanna make him look like an idiot in front of Sarah. Im gunna go talk to him.
DM: Alright. Roll for initiative.
Player & DM roll, Player wins.
DM: Ok you get to talk 1st.
Player: Im gunna shock his socks off. I come right out & make a rude comment about his silly ass hat.
DM: Ok, you make a quick Quip* about his hat, roll a Perform (Comedy).
Player rolls & gets a 15, Dm rolls edwards sense motive & gets a 13, DM rolls to see if sarah thought the comment was funny(whatever this roll would be)
DM: His eyes open a little wide, and he seems taken aback like he doesnt know how to respond to that. He is still in shock, you an do somethign else if you would like, since he can't act this round. Sarah giggles a little, apparantly she thought it was pretty funny too.
Player: I'm gunna take advantage of his inability to act and ask sarah if she wouldn't like to leave this clown and go dance with me.
DM: Ok, you try to use some Gentle Perusasion** to get her to leave, roll a Diplomacy check.
Player rolls a 25, which the DM decides is more than enough to get sarah to dance. (The player used a standard action to convince sarah, and both used a move action to walk the 30 feet to the dance floor.)
DM: Ok, sarah agrees to go dance, the two of you walk off. You're already at the dance floor by the time edward recovers.

So, any suggestions for other manuvers or critiques on these manuvers? (CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM ONLY PLEASE)
TekknoMancer
02-20-07, 09:05 PM These could be made into skill tricks quite nicely it seems.
Rhuxley
02-23-07, 10:42 PM :bump:
Longarms
02-24-07, 03:08 AM Its a really great idea!

My thoughts are that it seems a little rule heavy in your specific implementation. I think you could improve it by simplifying... maybe give each person four options they could try on their turn. I like systems that I can easily memorize so that the flow of gameplay isn't inturrupted during a gaming session.

Take my input with a grain of salt, because the more I think about it, my comment above probably applies to most 3.5 systems!
Rhuxley
02-24-07, 10:56 AM Take my input with a grain of salt, because the more I think about it, my comment above probably applies to most 3.5 systems!
Haha!

You're probably right though. The way I have it, the only viable option is to not tell the players these rules at all, and just ask what they want to do, then tell them what roll to make.
The issue with simplifying is that there are 8 main skills, that are used often in social situations: Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Perform (Both Comedy & Oratory) & Sense motive; and a handful of backup skills that are used a little less often, but apply either a synergy bonus to certain situations, or give the ability to do certain things: Concentration, Knowledge, Listen & Profession: Lawyer.

I just dont know how to simplify them. Any suggestions?
Rhuxley
02-26-07, 10:52 AM So, I playtested this system saturday in my own personal game. I noticed a few things.
1. this system is mainly useable for slandering others, and making them look bad in front of audiences. I would like it to be moer viable for persuasion, and getting through friendly conversations.
2. The Combat system doesnt work well. The players roll for initiative, and the 1st round or 2 goes well, then it breaks down, and initiative is hard to follow.
3. The end of Socal Combat is difficult to find. Obviously when the players sit down at soemoens desk to speak about gettign a job, when they et the job, they oviously won, but what about when they dont get the job, or when they instead get a referal to someone who DOES need their services? Do they win? When is it over?

Any Thoughts/Suggestions?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rhuxley 02-20-07, 03:34 PM	The point of this is to add more depth to a diplomacy roll, and to make social inereactions more interesting for players. Here are some examples I came up with for use in "Social Combat". Keep in mind that this system is mainly for people who run political intrigue campaigns, or those who would like to add depth to negotiations. Social Maneuvers: Sly Insinuation: You say one thing, and mean another. Slyly cutting down your opponent by insinuating. Bluff vs. Sense Motive, you gain a +2 to future attacks on your opponents character. (Bluff DC to deny use of this maneuver is +5) Action: 1 action Smear Campaign: You openly smear your opponents character. Opposed Diplomacy Checks, (Bluff checks may be necessary, if either side is lying) move audience members attitudes of your opponent 1 step toward hostile*, and Reduce reputation 1 point. Action: 1 action Expose Lie: If you beat an opponents bluff with your sense motive to catch them in a lie, you announce it loudly in front of everyone in attendance. You force your opponent to reroll her last bluff check. All future bluff checks are at a -5 to all who see through this lie. Against all who believe her however, her bluff checks are at a +5. Action: 1 action Threaten: You openly threaten your opponent, either physicly, or otherwise. Make a standard Intimidate check. If you pass, this ends the social encounter, and they are helpful to your cause. If you fail, they gain a +2 to all opposed rolls against you for the durration of the encounter. Special: If you have a guard in attendance you gain +2 to physical threats. If you have a reputation of being cruel you gain a +2 to this roll. The subject of this maneuvers attitude toward you changes 1 step toward hostile after the effects wear off. Action: 1 action The Apple Doesn't Fall far From the Tree: You compare your opponent to one of his disgraced ancestors. Make knowledge (nobility & royalty) check, DC 20. At this point if you do not pass(or fail by 5 or more), you must either lie, or change tactics. You then make opposed diplomacy checks (bluff checks may also be necessary). Special: If either combatants fail their knowledge 5 or more, they make a false comparison, the exact ramifications are up to the DM. Action: 1 action Quip: You make a direct quick rude reference to something about your opponent. Make a Perform (Comedy) opposed by your opponents sense motive. If you win, your opponent is dazed for 1 round, plus 1 round for every 5 by which your beat her. Gentle Perusasion: You try persuading your opponent to see your point of view. This works just like a regular use of the diplomacy check. Forceful Interogation: You begin demanding questions of your opponent, in such a forceful manner, she easily gets confused and spouts out the wrong answers. Intimidation vs. Sense Motive. If you win, your opponent is dazed for 1 round, and can take no actions other than to answer your questions after which she is shaken for a number of rounds equal to your cha modifier. Special: You have a -5 to all densive skill checks until your next action. If you opponent fails her check by 5 or more, she spouts out the wrong answer, she recieves a -5 to bluff checks to defend that mistake. Expose Flaw: You make a very rude statement about your opponent in front of all in attendance. Make a Perform (Comedy) opposed by your opponents sense motive. If you win, your opponent is stunned for 1 round, and is dazed for 1 round for every 5 by which your beat her. Special: You have a -5 to all densive skill checks until your next action. Your opponents attitute toward you moves one step toward hostile. Huge Lie: You come up with a whopper of a proclaimation. The very improbability of the claim acts as people will assume that someone of your reputation would never make such a claim unless it were true. Bluff vs. Sense Motive (+10 bonus). Your opponent loses 1 reputaion with anyone who failed their check, move audience members attitudes of your opponent 1 step toward hostile. You lose 1 reputaion with anyone who passed their check, move audience members attitudes toward you 1 step toward hostile. If your opponent sucessfully uses "Expose Lie" against you while targeting this lie she gains back her reputation, and you lose 1 reputation. Dazzling Rhetoric: You attempt to dazzle your audience with your magnificent display of rhetorical situations. Perform (Oratory) vs. Sense Motive. Success indicates you get your point across, your next maneuver is at a +2 bonus, plus 1 for every 5 by which your check exceeded your opponent. Failure means you take a -1 penalty to next maneuver, since you confused your opponent. Point of Order: You point out a breach of etiquette made by your opponent durring the discussion. Knowledge (local) DC: <special>, to identify the issue, and bring attention to it. Your opponent is then forced by local customs to appologize, and lose her next action, or risk seeming even more out of line. Special: This maneuver is only available after your opponent fails her knowledge(local) check, and makes a breach of etiquette. If your opponent makes a social skill roll for her next action, she recieves a -2 penalty to persuade audience members for the durration of the encounter. Boast: You boast about something you are good at relevant to the situation, citing some knowledge you have on the subject. Knowledge (applicable skill) vs DC: 20. You gain a +1 to next check regarding this subject as well a +1 for every 5 by which your check beat the DC. Failure by 5 or more nets a -1 penalty. Special: Alternatively a bluff check opposed by either a sense motive, or a knowledge (same skill) achieves the same result. Other actions: Aid Another provides the usual bonus, Aim provides a +1 bonus if a round is spent contemplating the next action, Distract works like flanking, providing a +2 for every character actively attacking the same opponent. Reputation is a variant, like honour. If you dont use that variant, then ignore that effect, or change the attitude of the audience toward that person by 1 step toward hostile. A suggestion: if their attitude ever turns hostile, nobles would be more apt to chalenge someone to a duel, or have them removed from the court room than actually attack someone outright. Keep in mind that these people have appearances to keep up as well. Here is an example of its use: DM: You walk up to Sir Edward, who today is wearing a wide brimmed hat, with giant plumage. He is talking to that noble girl you've been trying to impress, Sarah. Edward sees you coming, and greets you with a bow, removing his hat. Player: Damn, I hate that guy. I wanna make him look like an idiot in front of Sarah. Im gunna go talk to him. DM: Alright. Roll for initiative. Player & DM roll, Player wins. DM: Ok you get to talk 1st. Player: Im gunna shock his socks off. I come right out & make a rude comment about his silly ass hat. DM: Ok, you make a quick Quip about his hat, roll a Perform (Comedy). Player rolls & gets a 15, Dm rolls edwards sense motive & gets a 13, DM rolls to see if sarah thought the comment was funny(whatever this roll would be) DM: His eyes open a little wide, and he seems taken aback like he doesnt know how to respond to that. He is still in shock, you an do somethign else if you would like, since he can't act this round. Sarah giggles a little, apparantly she thought it was pretty funny too. Player: I'm gunna take advantage of his inability to act and ask sarah if she wouldn't like to leave this clown and go dance with me. DM: Ok, you try to use some Gentle Perusasion** to get her to leave, roll a Diplomacy check. Player rolls a 25, which the DM decides is more than enough to get sarah to dance. (The player used a standard action to convince sarah, and both used a move action to walk the 30 feet to the dance floor.) DM: Ok, sarah agrees to go dance, the two of you walk off. You're already at the dance floor by the time edward recovers. So, any suggestions for other manuvers or critiques on these manuvers? (CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM ONLY PLEASE)
TekknoMancer 02-20-07, 09:05 PM	These could be made into skill tricks quite nicely it seems.
Rhuxley 02-23-07, 10:42 PM	:bump:
Longarms 02-24-07, 03:08 AM	Its a really great idea! My thoughts are that it seems a little rule heavy in your specific implementation. I think you could improve it by simplifying... maybe give each person four options they could try on their turn. I like systems that I can easily memorize so that the flow of gameplay isn't inturrupted during a gaming session. Take my input with a grain of salt, because the more I think about it, my comment above probably applies to most 3.5 systems!
Rhuxley 02-24-07, 10:56 AM	Take my input with a grain of salt, because the more I think about it, my comment above probably applies to most 3.5 systems! Haha! You're probably right though. The way I have it, the only viable option is to not tell the players these rules at all, and just ask what they want to do, then tell them what roll to make. The issue with simplifying is that there are 8 main skills, that are used often in social situations: Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Perform (Both Comedy & Oratory) & Sense motive; and a handful of backup skills that are used a little less often, but apply either a synergy bonus to certain situations, or give the ability to do certain things: Concentration, Knowledge, Listen & Profession: Lawyer. I just dont know how to simplify them. Any suggestions?
Rhuxley 02-26-07, 10:52 AM	So, I playtested this system saturday in my own personal game. I noticed a few things. 1. this system is mainly useable for slandering others, and making them look bad in front of audiences. I would like it to be moer viable for persuasion, and getting through friendly conversations. 2. The Combat system doesnt work well. The players roll for initiative, and the 1st round or 2 goes well, then it breaks down, and initiative is hard to follow. 3. The end of Socal Combat is difficult to find. Obviously when the players sit down at soemoens desk to speak about gettign a job, when they et the job, they oviously won, but what about when they dont get the job, or when they instead get a referal to someone who DOES need their services? Do they win? When is it over? Any Thoughts/Suggestions?