Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aleolus 11-08-07, 10:44 PM	OK, here's a feat that is perfect for Paladins, Sorcerers, and other Cha based classes! Overconfident You're charm and good looks make even the most cruel and heartless creatures hesitate to strike you. Effect: You gain an deflection bonus to your AC equal to one-half your Charisma modifier. Now, picture this. A player who writes up a 1st level Paladin, with this feat, who wears full plate, put an 18 into his Cha, and does nothing in battle but dance around singin' "Can't Touch This." And of course his name is Michael Crusher Hammer. :D :rofl:
dman11235 11-08-07, 11:15 PM	Really, really, really overpowered. There needs to be limitations on this, and a lot of them. The feats that grant a stat to AC that I can think of are: divine shield. Spend a turn attempt to add charisma to your shield's AC bonus for a brief time.
Aleolus 11-08-07, 11:31 PM	...How is this feat any more broken than the Armor Focus series of feats? I mean, all this does is add in another stat to your AC, which improves it exactly the same way that Dex does. I say that the Armor Focus series are way more broken than this one is. I mean, for goodness sake, I wrote up a first level human fighter with an AC of 27 for goodness sake! Armor Focus Pick one type of armor you are proficient with. You gain a +1 competence bonus to your AC when wearing this type of armor, and your Armor Check penalty is reduced by 1 when wearing it. Armor Specialization Pick one type of armor you have the Armor Focus feat for. You gain a +2 competence bonus to your AC when wearing that type of armor, and your Armor Check Penalty is reduced by 2. These bonuses stack with the bonuses from Armor Focus. Armor Mastery Pick one type of armor you have the Armor Specialization feat for. You gain a +4 Competence bonus to your AC when wearing that type of armor, and your Armor Check Penalty is reduced by 4. These bonuses stack with the bonuses from Armor Focus and Armor Specialization. Human Fighter, 1st level, 15 Dex, wearing Full Plate, and a buckler. +8 Armor, +1 Dex, +7 Competence, +1 Shield. 10+8+1+7+1=27. He cannot be hit by anything except touch attacks, criticals, and attacks from creatures who are a lot more powerful than him.
CryoSilver 11-08-07, 11:39 PM	But he spent 3 feats on that, not one.
Aleolus 11-08-07, 11:45 PM	True, but who is going to even want this feat much? Sorcerers, Bards, maybe Rouges, and Paladins. No one else uses Cha very much, so usually use it as something of a dump stat. Paladins are really the only ones who get a massive AC out of this feat, because, not only do they have high Cha's, they are also proficient with all armors. Bards only get light armor, and Sorcs get no armor at all.
CryoSilver 11-08-07, 11:48 PM	That matters less than the fact that this feat is stright up BETTER than most feats out there, and boosting Charisma isn't that hard.
dman11235 11-09-07, 12:13 AM	And the armor focus tree is from where? And the prereqs? Besides, this is a +9 to AC easy at 20 (a human that starts with an 18 and puts all he can has a +12: 18+5 levels+6 item+5 tome), where those three feats are a +8.
Dipteran_Legacy 11-09-07, 12:16 AM	um....are you sure the focus/spec/mastery doesnt have fighter level req's, like weapon focus/spec/mastery?
dman11235 11-09-07, 12:23 AM	I think it does, but I can't remember where I saw them. And I think it may be 3rd party or 3.0 or both, because Heavy Armor Optimization increases it by 1, and greater is an additional 1. The ACP is reduced by 3 total.
Aleolus 11-09-07, 12:27 AM	Really? What about Scoundrel's Luck, where you add your Cha to your Reflex saves, in addition to your Dex? Or Earth Armor, where you gain DR/Epic equal to your Con modifier (plus, you can take it multiple times, and it's effects stack!)? Fortress of the Mind, you add your Int modifier to Will saves, in addition to your Wis. Hamstring, whenever you score a crit on a large creature (or medium, if you're small), you may choose to cut it's movement rate in half, instead of dealing extra damage (granted using this feat violates a Paladin's Code of Conduct). Invulnerability, you gain DR 5/-. Iron Man, you can ignore a number of points of damage each day equal to your Base Attack Bonus. Rat Hacker, when fighting creatures smaller than yourself, they loose their size bonus to AC. Twelve Dragon Fist, if you succeed in dealing damage to your opponent with an unarmed strike, roll damage twice, taking the better of the two results. Shall I continue? EDIT: Oh,and the armor focus series of feats? Here are the prereqs. Armor focus: Proficiency with the selected armor. Armor Spec: Proficiency with and AF for the selected armor. Armor Mastery: Proficency with the selected armor, and armor focus and armor spec for the selected armor. No level reqs.
zeratulcraft 11-09-07, 12:30 AM	If you put a limit on that feat, it'd be usable. Maybe "Cha mod to deflection AC but no higher than 1/4 (maybe 1/2) char level".
dman11235 11-09-07, 12:42 AM	Where are you getting these feats? Invulnerabilty is just plain better than the epic feat Damage Reduction (DR3/-, stacks). Earth armor is as well, and even worse. Iron man I can see, as at most you can negate 20 points of damage per day. Hamstring I can also see, but depends on the amount of SA or SS you must give up. Rat Hacker I can also see. Woohoo! I can get a +1 bonus on you if you're small! Twelve Dragon Fist: is there a x/day on that? It sounds like there is. Fortress of the Mind is also overpowered if that's all it does. Steadfast Determination adds con instead of wis to will saves, Insightful Reflexes adds int instead of dex to ref, etc. And guess what? There's a feat called Armor Specialization that gives DR 2/- when wearing medium or heavy armor that can't be taken until at least level 12, does not stack.
Aleolus 11-09-07, 12:49 AM	There, happy? I still like the idea of a low-level Sorc being able to use this to get a decent AC.
dman11235 11-09-07, 01:16 AM	Well, yeah, and I'd like a million bucks. I'm sorry, that was condescending. Listen, you put the PEACh tag on the title, so I did, I evaluated and critiqued honestly. This is an overpowered feat. It's much better now, but if you really want a high AC as a sorcerer, take mage armor. And greater mage armor. That's a +6 armor bonus. Add in a mithryl buckler at +5 for a +6 boost, and take a level in monk and Ascetic Mage. That's a great AC. For paladins, take the racial sub level in CoValor, at level two get charisma to AC. Check out X stat to Y bnus for more options. I'll link it in a little bit. Please hold...
Aleolus 11-09-07, 01:30 AM	Where are you getting these feats? A book called Feats, published by AEG. Invulnerabilty is just plain better than the epic feat Damage Reduction (DR3/-, stacks). Earth armor is as well, and even worse. Yeah, I know. Granted, they both have a number of prereqs (Invulnerability has Con 15, Chaotic Healing, Consumption, Corruption, Great Fortitude, Iron Will, and Character level 12, while Earth Armor requires Con 13, Rocklike, Stoneblood, and a base Fort save of +6, plus you can't take Earth Armor more time's than you've taken Rocklike), but still. Hamstring I can also see, but depends on the amount of SA or SS you must give up. None, since it's every time you Crit, not whenever you could SA or SS your foe, if they are larger than you are. Rat Hacker I can also see. Woohoo! I can get a +1 bonus on you if you're small! ...Now imagine a Great Wyrm Red Dragon with the Rat Hacker feat. Twelve Dragon Fist: is there a x/day on that? It sounds like there is. *looks through the book* Nope, "If you successfully strike your opponent with your unarmed strike, roll two dice, and use the higher of the two results." Now, modifying that for a Monk's increased UA strike damage, it means you roll damage twice. Fortress of the Mind is also overpowered if that's all it does. Steadfast Determination adds con instead of wis to will saves, Insightful Reflexes adds int instead of dex to ref, etc. Going by the book I have, all those add them in in addition to the normal stat for that save, not instead of. And guess what? There's a feat called Armor Specialization that gives DR 2/- when wearing medium or heavy armor that can't be taken until at least level 12, does not stack. Well, that's a different Armor Specialization feat. I'm going by the book I have in front of me atm, which is Feats
dman11235 11-09-07, 01:39 AM	First: they are apparently third party, and that's not usually kosher for balance. Um... the great worm red gets no bonus if you're medium, +1 for small, +2 for tiny, etc. If what you said in the original post with this feat is correct. What is rocklike? And the other feats that i have no idea what they are? Insightful Reflexes and Steadfast Determination both ad the instead of clause. That book sounds very 3rd party to me. I am assuming that every feat that you listed is from that book? Now what does that say about the book? Oh, and I just found Hamstring, it's in CW. You give up 2d6 sneak attack to do it, and any cure spell, a DC15 heal check, or 24 hours removes the 1/2 speed reduction.
runestar 11-09-07, 01:44 AM	That is a rather smug attitude to be taking for someone who is asking for opinions, and trying to justify his own, and faring quite badly...
Aleolus 11-09-07, 01:44 AM	Well, yeah, and I'd like a million bucks. I'm sorry, that was condescending. Listen, you put the PEACh tag on the title, so I did, I evaluated and critiqued honestly. This is an overpowered feat. It's much better now, but if you really want a high AC as a sorcerer, take mage armor. And greater mage armor. That's a +6 armor bonus. Add in a mithryl buckler at +5 for a +6 boost, and take a level in monk and Ascetic Mage. That's a great AC. For paladins, take the racial sub level in CoValor, at level two get charisma to AC. Check out X stat to Y bnus for more options. I'll link it in a little bit. Please hold... ...I must apologize as well. I did not think this feat seemed very broken, so I got offended when the first response was saying that it was massively overpowered. Honestly, this came from last night, a friend of mine and I were talking, I got the idea for a feat that lets a character add their Cha to their AC, and then I got the (I thought) hilarious image that I put at the bottom of the first post, of a Paladin in full plate who does nothing in battle but dance around singing "Can't touch this"
dman11235 11-09-07, 01:49 AM	I forgot to link the thread! My bad, it just took so long to search. Wizards was slow. here it is! (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=320889)
Aleolus 11-09-07, 02:09 AM	First: they are apparently third party, and that's not usually kosher for balance. Well...:blush: Yes, it is third party, plus it was also released for 3.0. Um... the great worm red gets no bonus if you're medium, +1 for small, +2 for tiny, etc. If what you said in the original post with this feat is correct. The way I understand the feat, it means anyone with the Rat Hacker feat ignores any Size bonus to AC, regardless of the difference in size. Meaning that that Great Wyrm red dragon can attack Fine and Diminutive creatures just as easily as he can other Colossal creatures. What is rocklike? And the other feats that i have no idea what they are? OK, long response here. Rocklike: Prereqs; Con 15, Dwarf, Stoneblood. Effect: You gain +1 Natural Armor. Special: You may take this feat multiple times. It's effects stack. Stoneblood (Bloodgift): Prereqs; Con 15, Dwarf Effect: All bonuses granted by your Stonecutting racial ability increase by +2 Special: Can only be taken at first level Corruption: Prereqs; Great Fortitude, Iron Will, character level 7 Effect: You gain a +2 corruption bonus to all saving throws Special: You may take this feat more than once, and it's effects stack. However, every time you take this feat after the first your Cha score permanently drops by 2. Consumption: Prereqs; Corruption, Great Fortitude, Iron Will, character level 9 Effect: You gain a +3 corruption bonus to all saving throws, which stacks with the bonus from corruption. In addition, you are immune to all mundane diseases, though you may still act as a carrier of them. Those who come into contact with you suffer a -4 corruption penalty to saving throws against mundane and magical diseases for a number of days equal to your Con score. In addition, you suffer a -4 profane penalty to all Handle Animal checks. Special: You may take this feat more than once. It's effects stack, however, every time you take it after the first, your Charisma score drops 2 points permanently. Chaotic Healing: Prereqs; Corruption, Iron Will, Great Fortitude Effect: Instead of healing normally, the powers of chaos restore 1d6-3 (minimum of 0) hit points per character level for each full day of rest. Oh, and I just found Hamstring, it's in CW. You give up 2d6 sneak attack to do it, and any cure spell, a DC15 heal check, or 24 hours removes the 1/2 speed reduction. Oh, then they included it in 3.5 and updated it. Unusual, considering where it came from.
Aleolus 11-09-07, 02:30 AM	...Ouch. I just looked up the rat hacker feat, and here it is, updated to use 3.5 rules. Rat Hacker Prerequisites: Base Attack bonus +4 Effect: When you are battling creatures one size category or more smaller than you, they loose any benefits to AC and attack rolls based off their size. Special: A fighter may select Rat Hacker as one of his Fighter bonus feats. :eek: So, not only do we not get any AC bonuses against that Great Wyrm red dragon, but he doesn't get any AC penalties! Thank the gods that dragons have no dex!
dman11235 11-09-07, 02:37 AM	My guess is that they never heard of it and just made the feat. It's something that they'd use as a name for it. Corruprion and Consumtion sound interesting, although well overpowered. An essentially untyped bonus to all saving throws? Yes please! If the cha dropped each time you took either one, maybe we'll talk. Chaotic Healing it a bit of a throw away feat though, so that is one step towards balancing it. And yeah, that's what it sounds like. But it's a +8 bonus to hit for fine sized creatures! That's it! How many fine creatures do you fight every day? I fight a fly every day, but that's a long story. And that's a big fine creature. Even diminutive is rare. When's a dragon got to kill a small mouse that badly? And that's a whopping +4! But that other boost with no penalty for taking it is kind of the kicker. I may call this overpowered now. As for the earth armor one: still overpowered. Even with the single race qualification, and the two throw aways, it's well overpowered. Anyway, no that that's settled: If you're looking to add your charisma to AC, check out X stat to Y bonus. There's 5+races (every incorporeal), 8 classes, 3 feats, and a spell. This includes one epic feat from Dragon Magazine which adds charisma to AC, attacks, and reflex saves, so I know there's some other stuff in there. As for your paladin: there's a sub level. Trade your bonus to saves for a bonus to AC, same amount. Also, divine shield lets you spend turn attempts to add your charisma to your shield's bonus. All that aside, getting an ability to AC is usually a class thing, not a feat thing. There's just a couple more feats that grant a stat to AC. They don't really count, as they both replace wisdom for monks with intelligence.
Aleolus 11-09-07, 02:47 AM	Actually, aren't the modifiers cumulative? Meaning if a Collassal creature was battling a Fine creature, the Collossal creature would get -8 to hit, and the Fine creature +8 AC, making 16 points difference? The dragon would essentially get +8 against medium sized creatures, +16 if (for some reason) it got into a fight with a Fine creature. Plus, it does not suffer the usual -8 size penalty, so increase it's AC by another 8. Combine that with the fact that Great Wyrms have around 30 or more points of natural AC, and even Touch attacks would be difficult against them.
dman11235 11-09-07, 02:52 AM	What? The + to AC is for him, not them. A colossal creature take a -8 penalty to attack and AC, while a fine gets +8. This feat changes nothing for the colossal, but the fine creature he's facing does not gain the benifit of the +to AC or attack. That means that cumulative the colossal gets +8 attack and AC from this, effectively. They get no bonus, the other takes a penalty. The dragon's AC is still the same, it's just that the small or smaller takes a penalty on attack rolls.
Aleolus 11-09-07, 03:05 AM	OK, now i get it. Sorry if I've seemed obtrusive, or anything, I'm just eager to learn and understand stuff.
dman11235 11-09-07, 03:11 AM	When did you start playing?
EjoThims 11-09-07, 03:40 AM	If you want Cha to AC, take one level of battledancer from Dragon Compemdium. Then take levels in Paladin of Freedom for Cha to all your saves. Then become a bard and use the Frostburn feat to get Cha to attacks. Or is it damage? /shrug Cha is actually one of the harder abilities to sub in for other forms. Though Pyromancer also has some nice Cha benefits and boosts.
dman11235 11-09-07, 04:06 AM	Are you kidding? It's one of the easier. It has more ways to add to other things than any other stat besides int and possibly wisdom, but I think it beats wisdom.
EjoThims 11-09-07, 04:14 AM	Are you kidding? http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=320889 I have to be wrong sometimes... ;) Seriously though... Dunno what I was thinking... Though I still haven't been able to find the details on the Gauntlets of Heartfelt Blows... :(
dman11235 11-09-07, 04:21 AM	Yeah, that's what I was using. And unfortunately the only dragon magazine material I have is the Dragon Compendium. And wouldn't you know it's in there? Page 136 if you have it.
EjoThims 11-09-07, 04:36 AM	Yeah, that's what I was using. And unfortunately the only dragon magazine material I have is the Dragon Compendium. And wouldn't you know it's in there? Page 136 if you have it. I hadn't seen the link posted, so I did it, since I had to dig it up to see if I was really as crazy as I now see I am. Wow, shows how carefully I've read the Dragon Com... lol Those gloves are AMAZING, especially for their price. And my Pyromancer will just love doing even more fire damage with my whip of fire that's on fire... :D
dman11235 11-09-07, 04:49 AM	Yeah. My sorcerer/monk that my party's facing is having them now.
Aleolus 11-11-07, 01:48 AM	OK, updated to a version suggested on another site, who thought that my improved version was still too powerful. How's it look now?