paladin + force of personality [Archive] - Wizards Community

paladin + force of personality [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
IceyReed
03-16-07, 05:41 PM does the charisma stack?
navar100
03-16-07, 06:46 PM It's technically not a stacking situation, but I'd say this combo works.
CrazyMarv
03-16-07, 07:44 PM This isn't actually a matter of them stacking. Force of Personality allows you to use your Charisma modifier instead of Wisdom. It doesn't give you a bonus to Will saves on its own, just changes what ability score you use to determine your save bonus.

Divine Grace gives you a bonus to all your saves equal to your Charisma modifier. It doesn't make it so you use your Charisma modifier to determine your save bonuses. A Paladin with 12 Dexterity and 16 Charisma would have a +4 to Reflex saves. A +1 from the ability that affects Reflex saves (Dexterity) and a +3 from his Divine Grace class ability (his Charisma modifier). He would not have only a +3 because his Charisma has not replaced what is used to determine his Reflex saves, it just gives a boost.

So in the end, this combo works.
Taureus_Drakken
03-16-07, 08:38 PM Paladins need Wisdom for spells, so it would not make sense to do this unless you Cha bonus was at least +2 more than your Wis bonus.

This is the same type of thing you find with Steadfast Determination, and whatever other feats allow you to use one ability bonus in place of another for saves.
theotherdraxen
03-16-07, 10:47 PM Paladins need Wisdom for spells, so it would not make sense to do this unless you Cha bonus was at least +2 more than your Wis bonus.

Which is the case for most Paladins. Few Paladins take more than a 14 wisdom, and even then, that's with a Peripat of Wisdom. Charisma, on the other hand, tends to be around 20 or more.
Taureus_Drakken
03-16-07, 10:54 PM I see your point. I just figured they might want more bonus spells or such. I completely forgot about smite for some reason when I posted.
Qube
03-17-07, 12:31 PM At 2nd level, a paladin gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws.
paladins get an unnamed bonus to their saves, not their charisma modifier (Yes, the bonus is equal to the charisma bonus, but that's not importand).

so a feat that allows cha to willsave instead of wis would be no prolem.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
IceyReed 03-16-07, 05:41 PM	does the charisma stack?
navar100 03-16-07, 06:46 PM	It's technically not a stacking situation, but I'd say this combo works.
CrazyMarv 03-16-07, 07:44 PM	This isn't actually a matter of them stacking. Force of Personality allows you to use your Charisma modifier instead of Wisdom. It doesn't give you a bonus to Will saves on its own, just changes what ability score you use to determine your save bonus. Divine Grace gives you a bonus to all your saves equal to your Charisma modifier. It doesn't make it so you use your Charisma modifier to determine your save bonuses. A Paladin with 12 Dexterity and 16 Charisma would have a +4 to Reflex saves. A +1 from the ability that affects Reflex saves (Dexterity) and a +3 from his Divine Grace class ability (his Charisma modifier). He would not have only a +3 because his Charisma has not replaced what is used to determine his Reflex saves, it just gives a boost. So in the end, this combo works.
Taureus_Drakken 03-16-07, 08:38 PM	Paladins need Wisdom for spells, so it would not make sense to do this unless you Cha bonus was at least +2 more than your Wis bonus. This is the same type of thing you find with Steadfast Determination, and whatever other feats allow you to use one ability bonus in place of another for saves.
theotherdraxen 03-16-07, 10:47 PM	Paladins need Wisdom for spells, so it would not make sense to do this unless you Cha bonus was at least +2 more than your Wis bonus. Which is the case for most Paladins. Few Paladins take more than a 14 wisdom, and even then, that's with a Peripat of Wisdom. Charisma, on the other hand, tends to be around 20 or more.
Taureus_Drakken 03-16-07, 10:54 PM	I see your point. I just figured they might want more bonus spells or such. I completely forgot about smite for some reason when I posted.
Qube 03-17-07, 12:31 PM	At 2nd level, a paladin gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws. paladins get an unnamed bonus to their saves, not their charisma modifier (Yes, the bonus is equal to the charisma bonus, but that's not importand). so a feat that allows cha to willsave instead of wis would be no prolem.