PEACH (2x rage) [Archive] - Wizards Community

PEACH (2x rage) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
demoniciron
05-07-07, 05:26 PM I've been playing with this idea for a while in my head, so here it is:

Double Rage
Prerequisites:barb 8
Benefiit: Whenever you rage you can spend 1 or more aaditional rages to multiply the bnss from rage equal to the total number of uses expended. the pnlty to ac also accumlates as well and at the end of the rage you take a -2 to saves each round and must make a DC 20 + the number of rounds you are in rage fortitude save every round after the rage to avoid falling unconcius. If you have tireless rage you have a +4 bns to this save.

so what do you think?
tarkin
05-07-07, 05:54 PM That seems too powerfull.

Barbarians already have a natural increase in rage to Greater Rage at level 11, and then again to Mighty Rage at 20.

While pre-11, your idea sounds reasonable, I see problems at level 11 and higher.

I would consider the following:

Rage doubled:

For each additional use of Rage you do, you increase your benefits by +4 to strength and con, +2 to the will save, but you also increase the penalty to AC by another -2.

-----------

Or consider this idea:

Practicsed Rager:

With regards to rage class abilities of a Barabarian, you count as 4 levels higher, but can not exceed your HD. This includes x/day, bonus (Greater/Mighty), Indominatible Will and Tireless Rage.
demoniciron
05-10-07, 09:42 PM nice idea, but is there a way to balance it out? i mean it costs aditional rages per day and has scaling penalties.
Lina_Inverse
05-10-07, 11:20 PM A level20 barbarian gains 6 rages a day, and only has 4 encounters. for a mere one feat two of those rages are at +16 free and increase in value of about 2.9 times. more abusive is blowing all 6 rages into a single encounter netting a +48! a benefit TWENTY SIX times as valuable as normal for a rage at that level.

Costing extra rages is a none-issue when you have more rages than you need.
Grimmsfeld
05-11-07, 02:59 AM Combined with Extra Rage, yeah...no.
wonlee76
05-11-07, 11:21 AM There is a feat in Races of Stone that gives a boost to rage. I forget the name of it, Mountain Rage or something like that.

All that feat did was give an extra +2 Str and Con boost while raging and doubled the AC penalty iirc.

By comparsion, your feat is open to lots of abuse in the hands of an optimizer.

EDIT: My suggestion on trying to balance your feat out is something like.

Enhanced Rage
Prerequisites:barb 8
Benefiit: Whenever you rage you can spend 1 or more additional rages to increase the strength and constitution bonus of the rage by 2 for each additional rage used. The penalty to armor class increases by -2 for every extra rage used.
AtmaWeapon
05-11-07, 05:23 PM No. Just no. Rediculously overpowered.

DC 20 + the number of rounds you are in rage fortitude save every round after the rage to avoid falling unconcius.

Considering the average barbarian who preps to take this feat is going to be able to blow about 6 rages at once, for +24 to STR and +24 to Con, or an overall mod (probably on average) 16, you're going to be asking for numbers like DC 39 to start with, from a barbarian who just came out of rage. You might as well just say "You fall unconsious", because without epic level abilities, no one can make that save (realistically) on anything but a 20.
CryoSilver
05-11-07, 05:26 PM How about just increasing Strength and Constitution by 2 for each extra rage spent?
windscar18
05-11-07, 07:14 PM Umm...I just have one thing to say.

This feat makes for the ultimate Nova Barbarian!
Linklegacy77
05-12-07, 01:07 PM Throw in 10 levels of bear warrior, who's rage gives a +20 to str.
demoniciron
05-12-07, 07:49 PM c'mon no ideas on how to balance it?

how about this:

after the rage you make a fort save. DC = to 10+(#of rounds in rage x # of uses of rage expended) or fall unconscious, if you suceed on the first check you are exhausted and take your char lv in nonlethal dmg. if you suceeded by 5 or more you' re only fatigued. every round have to make a fort save or advance to the next fatigue level( fatigued, exhausted, unconcious, dying), this save's DC increases by 1 every round.

and need i remind you that th AC penalty rises as well(min 1). so 2 rages expended = a -4 to AC
Linklegacy77
05-12-07, 10:28 PM Yeah, but it really wouldn't matter, as there would be pretty much no way to stop a person with such a ridiculous strength A barbarian 10/bear warrior 10 gets a +20 str, +2 dex, +8 con, +2 will, -2 AC in a rage. He has 4 rage/day from class levels. Assuming he spends 2 feats on Power attack to get into Bear Warrior, another on this, and that he is a human, he can spend 8 feats on extra rage. That's 20 rages a day. Uh, let me see here. +400 str, +40 Dex, +160 Con, +40 Will saves, -40 AC. Sure, everything will hit him, but he's getting a bonus 1600 hit points...

Anybody else think this is broken? Since he's getting a +200 to hit from str alone, he can pretty much dump his whole BAB into power attack. Assuming a str of 10 without raging (ridiculously below what he'd actually have), with his 2 claws, he's getting a +200 to hit, and dishing out 2d4+220 damage for each. With the bite, he's dealing 2d8+120.

Average damage per full attack: 579, with a completely unoptimized character. Plus, the whole 1600 bonus hit points, and a rage that lasts 83 rounds...

Average damage with this completely and utterly
CryoSilver
05-13-07, 11:34 AM That is why I suggested increasing by a static amount (+2) rather than just let the rage keep doubling.
demoniciron
05-14-07, 03:55 PM ok i think ive got it fixed: see this:

each additional rage gives a +4 str and +2 temporary hp/ hd that go away at the end of the rage. as well as a +2 bns in fort saves per rage. all previous penalties apply.

ive also made its previous bnss into a feat chain:

Double Rage:
prereq: brbrn lv 9, great fort
as above
Double G. Rage:
prereq: brbrn lv 15, Double Rage, great fort, toughnes
as above except +6 str and +3 temporary hp/hd and a +3 on fort saves.

Double M. Rage:
prereq: brbrn lv 21, Double Rage, Double G. Rage, great fort, toughnes
as above except +8 str and +4 temporary hp/hd and a +4 on fort saves.
AtmaWeapon
05-14-07, 04:05 PM ok i think ive got it fixed: see this:

each additional rage gives a +4 str and +2 temporary hp/ hd that go away at the end of the rage. as well as a +2 bns in fort saves per rage. all previous penalties apply.

ive also made its previous bnss into a feat chain:

Double Rage:
prereq: brbrn lv 9, great fort
as above
Double G. Rage:
prereq: brbrn lv 15, Double Rage, great fort, toughnes
as above except +6 str and +3 temporary hp/hd and a +3 on fort saves.

Double M. Rage:
prereq: brbrn lv 21, Double Rage, Double G. Rage, great fort, toughnes
as above except +8 str and +4 temporary hp/hd and a +4 on fort saves.

So, just so that we're clear, you've realistically changed nothing, but added a few requirements? 10 rounds or 50 rounds, it doesn't matter. This ability says "Win Target Encounter - Period"

Even without bear warrior it is too powerful. I highly doubt there is any way to adequately balance this ability. If the feat Extra Rage didn't exist, then maybe. But it does, so this feat is broken.

You want to make it maybe work? Append "You can spend no more then 1 additional use of rage. At the end of your rage, you are exhausted rather then fatigued."

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
demoniciron 05-07-07, 05:26 PM	I've been playing with this idea for a while in my head, so here it is: Double Rage Prerequisites:barb 8 Benefiit: Whenever you rage you can spend 1 or more aaditional rages to multiply the bnss from rage equal to the total number of uses expended. the pnlty to ac also accumlates as well and at the end of the rage you take a -2 to saves each round and must make a DC 20 + the number of rounds you are in rage fortitude save every round after the rage to avoid falling unconcius. If you have tireless rage you have a +4 bns to this save. so what do you think?
tarkin 05-07-07, 05:54 PM	That seems too powerfull. Barbarians already have a natural increase in rage to Greater Rage at level 11, and then again to Mighty Rage at 20. While pre-11, your idea sounds reasonable, I see problems at level 11 and higher. I would consider the following: Rage doubled: For each additional use of Rage you do, you increase your benefits by +4 to strength and con, +2 to the will save, but you also increase the penalty to AC by another -2. ----------- Or consider this idea: Practicsed Rager: With regards to rage class abilities of a Barabarian, you count as 4 levels higher, but can not exceed your HD. This includes x/day, bonus (Greater/Mighty), Indominatible Will and Tireless Rage.
demoniciron 05-10-07, 09:42 PM	nice idea, but is there a way to balance it out? i mean it costs aditional rages per day and has scaling penalties.
Lina_Inverse 05-10-07, 11:20 PM	A level20 barbarian gains 6 rages a day, and only has 4 encounters. for a mere one feat two of those rages are at +16 free and increase in value of about 2.9 times. more abusive is blowing all 6 rages into a single encounter netting a +48! a benefit TWENTY SIX times as valuable as normal for a rage at that level. Costing extra rages is a none-issue when you have more rages than you need.
Grimmsfeld 05-11-07, 02:59 AM	Combined with Extra Rage, yeah...no.
wonlee76 05-11-07, 11:21 AM	There is a feat in Races of Stone that gives a boost to rage. I forget the name of it, Mountain Rage or something like that. All that feat did was give an extra +2 Str and Con boost while raging and doubled the AC penalty iirc. By comparsion, your feat is open to lots of abuse in the hands of an optimizer. EDIT: My suggestion on trying to balance your feat out is something like. Enhanced Rage Prerequisites:barb 8 Benefiit: Whenever you rage you can spend 1 or more additional rages to increase the strength and constitution bonus of the rage by 2 for each additional rage used. The penalty to armor class increases by -2 for every extra rage used.
AtmaWeapon 05-11-07, 05:23 PM	No. Just no. Rediculously overpowered. DC 20 + the number of rounds you are in rage fortitude save every round after the rage to avoid falling unconcius. Considering the average barbarian who preps to take this feat is going to be able to blow about 6 rages at once, for +24 to STR and +24 to Con, or an overall mod (probably on average) 16, you're going to be asking for numbers like DC 39 to start with, from a barbarian who just came out of rage. You might as well just say "You fall unconsious", because without epic level abilities, no one can make that save (realistically) on anything but a 20.
CryoSilver 05-11-07, 05:26 PM	How about just increasing Strength and Constitution by 2 for each extra rage spent?
windscar18 05-11-07, 07:14 PM	Umm...I just have one thing to say. This feat makes for the ultimate Nova Barbarian!
Linklegacy77 05-12-07, 01:07 PM	Throw in 10 levels of bear warrior, who's rage gives a +20 to str.
demoniciron 05-12-07, 07:49 PM	c'mon no ideas on how to balance it? how about this: after the rage you make a fort save. DC = to 10+(#of rounds in rage x # of uses of rage expended) or fall unconscious, if you suceed on the first check you are exhausted and take your char lv in nonlethal dmg. if you suceeded by 5 or more you' re only fatigued. every round have to make a fort save or advance to the next fatigue level( fatigued, exhausted, unconcious, dying), this save's DC increases by 1 every round. and need i remind you that th AC penalty rises as well(min 1). so 2 rages expended = a -4 to AC
Linklegacy77 05-12-07, 10:28 PM	Yeah, but it really wouldn't matter, as there would be pretty much no way to stop a person with such a ridiculous strength A barbarian 10/bear warrior 10 gets a +20 str, +2 dex, +8 con, +2 will, -2 AC in a rage. He has 4 rage/day from class levels. Assuming he spends 2 feats on Power attack to get into Bear Warrior, another on this, and that he is a human, he can spend 8 feats on extra rage. That's 20 rages a day. Uh, let me see here. +400 str, +40 Dex, +160 Con, +40 Will saves, -40 AC. Sure, everything will hit him, but he's getting a bonus 1600 hit points... Anybody else think this is broken? Since he's getting a +200 to hit from str alone, he can pretty much dump his whole BAB into power attack. Assuming a str of 10 without raging (ridiculously below what he'd actually have), with his 2 claws, he's getting a +200 to hit, and dishing out 2d4+220 damage for each. With the bite, he's dealing 2d8+120. Average damage per full attack: 579, with a completely unoptimized character. Plus, the whole 1600 bonus hit points, and a rage that lasts 83 rounds... Average damage with this completely and utterly
CryoSilver 05-13-07, 11:34 AM	That is why I suggested increasing by a static amount (+2) rather than just let the rage keep doubling.
demoniciron 05-14-07, 03:55 PM	ok i think ive got it fixed: see this: each additional rage gives a +4 str and +2 temporary hp/ hd that go away at the end of the rage. as well as a +2 bns in fort saves per rage. all previous penalties apply. ive also made its previous bnss into a feat chain: Double Rage: prereq: brbrn lv 9, great fort as above Double G. Rage: prereq: brbrn lv 15, Double Rage, great fort, toughnes as above except +6 str and +3 temporary hp/hd and a +3 on fort saves. Double M. Rage: prereq: brbrn lv 21, Double Rage, Double G. Rage, great fort, toughnes as above except +8 str and +4 temporary hp/hd and a +4 on fort saves.
AtmaWeapon 05-14-07, 04:05 PM	ok i think ive got it fixed: see this: each additional rage gives a +4 str and +2 temporary hp/ hd that go away at the end of the rage. as well as a +2 bns in fort saves per rage. all previous penalties apply. ive also made its previous bnss into a feat chain: Double Rage: prereq: brbrn lv 9, great fort as above Double G. Rage: prereq: brbrn lv 15, Double Rage, great fort, toughnes as above except +6 str and +3 temporary hp/hd and a +3 on fort saves. Double M. Rage: prereq: brbrn lv 21, Double Rage, Double G. Rage, great fort, toughnes as above except +8 str and +4 temporary hp/hd and a +4 on fort saves. So, just so that we're clear, you've realistically changed nothing, but added a few requirements? 10 rounds or 50 rounds, it doesn't matter. This ability says "Win Target Encounter - Period" Even without bear warrior it is too powerful. I highly doubt there is any way to adequately balance this ability. If the feat Extra Rage didn't exist, then maybe. But it does, so this feat is broken. You want to make it maybe work? Append "You can spend no more then 1 additional use of rage. At the end of your rage, you are exhausted rather then fatigued."