Post/Author/DateTime	Post
WinterPsionic 04-04-07, 01:18 AM	Any feats that grant Perform as a class skill? I'm trying to build a Chameleon/Master of Masks and make the most out of the few bonuses the MoM gets to spell casting so I was thinking SpellTheif but they don't get Perform and I need to avoid 13 levels in the class. I like Bard but it doesn't fit my idea for flavor. Unless anyone knows of any other classes that grant Bluff, Disguise, Perform(act) and Spellcraft...(Speak Language would be a plus but I can manage :P )
CantripN 04-04-07, 02:42 AM	Well, the Illumian race would give you Speak Language as a class skill forever. About Perform, there's Appretice (Performer) (DMG2) and Chaotic Mind (Add 3 skills as Class Skills) (Dragon). Besides, you have Able Learner as a Chameleon, so why not just wait till level 13 for your first level as MoM?
WinterPsionic 04-04-07, 12:06 PM	Well, the Illumian race would give you Speak Language as a class skill forever. Right but then Chameleon's out :weep: About Perform, there's Appretice (Performer) (DMG2) and Chaotic Mind (Add 3 skills as Class Skills) (Dragon). Dragon magazine? Do you know the issu number? I know there's the same in XPH but I believe it was a Psionic feat which none of the build options I'm looking at qualifies for. Besides, you have Able Learner as a Chameleon, so why not just wait till level 13 for your first level as MoM? I was thinking about that alot and I may just end up doing it that way, the problem being that I'd like to be at an equal level with the skills as acting will undoubtedly be a big part of any espionage tasks I try. Unless I can fnd a way to work it, it may be my only choice.
CantripN 04-04-07, 12:34 PM	Right but then Chameleon's out :weep: It could be argued that you can be an Illumian Chameleon. I'm playing one at the moment, so I'm biased. Uurkrau rocks! Dragon magazine? Do you know the issue number? I know there's the same in XPH but I believe it was a Psionic feat which none of the build options I'm looking at qualifies for. The feat's called "Flexible Mind". It was in the "Chaos Feats" article (Dragon #326, p. 80). I was thinking about that alot and I may just end up doing it that way, the problem being that I'd like to be at an equal level with the skills as acting will undoubtedly be a big part of any espionage tasks I try. Unless I can find a way to work it, it may be my only choice. Acting in disguise is covered under Disguise and Bluff. You even get Synergy.
WinterPsionic 04-04-07, 01:12 PM	It could be argued that you can be an Illumian Chameleon. I'm playing one at the moment, so I'm biased. Uurkrau rocks! If I could get my DM to houserule a race for that class it'd probably Changling, the faceless thing would be SO cool for this character. :D The feat's called "Flexible Mind". It was in the "Chaos Feats" article (Dragon #326, p. 80). 326...damn guess I better order that issue asap. Acting in disguise is covered under Disguise and Bluff. You even get Synergy. By RAW yes, but I just know my DM's gonna push the limit's, not that I mind it, that's why I'm planning for it.
CantripN 04-04-07, 01:15 PM	If I could get my DM to houserule a race for that class it'd probably Changling, the faceless thing would be SO cool for this character. :D Eh... http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=822140
WinterPsionic 04-04-07, 01:30 PM	Eh... http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=822140 Yes, I was actually aware of this, however as mentioned that was for the ECS, my DM nearly has a heart attack if we even mention the name Eberron(well not really but he hates the material) and since the Races of Destiny only mentions the Humans and Dopplegangers I'm not sure it'll fly for him. I already planned on having a Metaline weapon or 2 and some glammering clothes to help with the change in apparel, possibly use some profession skill to determine how close I got the glammer to look. Here's a thought though...(I don't have access to my books to verify), but since Perform(Act) would become a class skill when I took my first level in "MoM" I could just put a few extra skill points there to make up for the sudden differencec between class skill and cross-class(assuming Perform(Act) is a MoM class skill, which I would think it is).
CantripN 04-04-07, 01:47 PM	Proffesional Skill = Disguise. As per the rules. Check Disguise Self, Simulacrum and many others. And yes, MoM has Perform as a Class Skill, so you could, but it does nothing helpful as per the RAW. Hope it works for you. I tried making a MoM with a Chameleon, but anything beyond 2 levels in that is crippling.
Richmud 04-04-07, 01:54 PM	If I could get my DM to houserule a race for that class No house ruling needed to get illumian into chameleon in fact it takes a house rule to keep them out. An illumian has the human subtype that means its a human for, among other things, taking feats and entering PrCs. Its just like a wood elf being able to enter arcane archer
WinterPsionic 04-04-07, 02:38 PM	Proffesional Skill = Disguise. As per the rules. Check Disguise Self, Simulacrum and many others. And yes, MoM has Perform as a Class Skill, so you could, but it does nothing helpful as per the RAW. Hope it works for you. I tried making a MoM with a Chameleon, but anything beyond 2 levels in that is crippling. More then 2 level in MoM is Crippling? I thought it looked ok(granted it's on paper not in practice). What exactly was it that you felt was such an issue? No house ruling needed to get illumian into chameleon in fact it takes a house rule to keep them out. An illumian has the human subtype that means its a human for, among other things, taking feats and entering PrCs. Its just like a wood elf being able to enter arcane archer Hmmm I actually never looked into the Sub types of the races...maybe that's why I didn't get a response to the request from my GM...guess it gives me something to look into tonight.
CantripN 04-04-07, 02:51 PM	More then 2 level in MoM is Crippling? I thought it looked ok(granted it's on paper not in practice). What exactly was it that you felt was such an issue? It's not a bad class, but it suffers from the "Totally Awesome, Cool and still Sucks syndrome", or TACS, for short. It has no good class features beyond 1st level, and you only take the second since it's +1 BAB and spellcasting. The SLAs are lame, and the only mask worth something is the Gladiator (Possibly Assassin if you stay in the class for long enough). You get those classes every once in a while, that look really nice on paper, yet suck in RL. Their coolness is enticing and dangerous. It's basically a lame Chameleon, with no real versatility, which is why the Chameleon rocks.
WinterPsionic 04-04-07, 04:43 PM	It's not a bad class, but it suffers from the "Totally Awesome, Cool and still Sucks syndrome", or TACS, for short. It has no good class features beyond 1st level, and you only take the second since it's +1 BAB and spellcasting. The SLAs are lame, and the only mask worth something is the Gladiator (Possibly Assassin if you stay in the class for long enough). You get those classes every once in a while, that look really nice on paper, yet suck in RL. Their coolness is enticing and dangerous. It's basically a lame Chameleon, with no real versatility, which is why the Chameleon rocks. Hmmm well I guess I'll have to see what I can do about that, like most of my characters I play for Flavor and as long as I can bring a little something to the table Powerwise I'm happy. The Spellcsting through me at First because I was going to base it off a Factotum but I figured the spellcasting was a pretty big deal so now I'm working on basing it off a Spelltheif as I don't like the Bard class(which is a natural fit for the build if I didn't hate it so much).
tui 04-05-07, 01:31 PM	Yes, I was actually aware of this, however as mentioned that was for the ECS, my DM nearly has a heart attack if we even mention the name Eberron(well not really but he hates the material). Races of Eberron, despite its name, is a "core D&D supplement and not an Eberron-specific book", according to its Introduction. Course you still need DM permission to use it, which might be difficult since it has Eberron right in the name...
WinterPsionic 04-05-07, 01:38 PM	Races of Eberron, despite its name, is a "core D&D supplement and not an Eberron-specific book", according to its Introduction. Course you still need DM permission to use it, which might be difficult since it has Eberron right in the name... Yep that's the issue :P The only exception to the rule is if I want to send my Character to Mechanus I can pick up some of the Eberron specific tech.
Warforged Goblin 04-05-07, 02:07 PM	If you're looking for a class that gives you Bluff, Perform, Spellcraft, and Speak Language, I suggest the generic Expert from Unearthed Arcana. Essenitally, you pick what skills (10 I think) are your class skills. Use that unil you reach Chameleon and you're golden.
WinterPsionic 04-05-07, 02:44 PM	If you're looking for a class that gives you Bluff, Perform, Spellcraft, and Speak Language, I suggest the generic Expert from Unearthed Arcana. Essenitally, you pick what skills (10 I think) are your class skills. Use that unil you reach Chameleon and you're golden. But doesn't expert only have 1 good save and a "bad" BAB progression? I'd like something with some flavor :P (Ya I'm being picky, I should just slap myself a few times, glare at myself in a mirror and tell myself that the Bard is a fine class)
CantripN 04-28-07, 08:37 PM	Wow, talk about raising the dead... Anyhow, I somehow got here again and realised a Human Paragon could have all those skills, and not suck! Now: Turn Undead!