Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tetsubo 03-02-07, 11:17 PM	The Two-Weapon Rend feat adds an additional +1d6 (+ 1.5 STR bonus) when you succeed at hitting with both weapons you wield. The feat requires a BAB of +11. This seems like too small of an amount of damage to make the feat worth taking. If the damage were increased to +2d6 do you think the feat would still be balanced?
Bhaal006 03-02-07, 11:19 PM	Balanced and awesome.
runestar 03-03-07, 12:24 AM	I would make the damage bonus the same as your off-hand weapon, sans any weapon enhancements it might possess. You wielding a short sword? Damage bonus is +1d6+1.5 str mod. You wielding a large greatsword? Damage bonus is +3d6+1.5 str mod.:)
Tetsubo 03-03-07, 12:26 AM	I would make the damage bonus the same as your off-hand weapon, sans any weapon enhancements it might possess. You wielding a short sword? Damage bonus is +1d6+1.5 str mod. You wielding a large greatsword? Damage bonus is +3d6+1.5 str mod.:) But the feat only works when you use the Two-Weapon action. If you doubled the damage of your off-hand weapon that might make sense... but I think a flat 2d6 is just easier to deal with...
runestar 03-03-07, 01:18 AM	But the feat only works when you use the Two-Weapon action. If you doubled the damage of your off-hand weapon that might make sense... but I think a flat 2d6 is just easier to deal with... And why can't I dual wield 2 greatswords? Oh right, the 3.0 monkey grip no longer existed...:embarrass
Tetsubo 03-03-07, 01:19 AM	And why can't I dual wield 2 greatswords? Oh right, the 3.0 monkey grip no longer existed...:embarrass That and the idea if wielding two great swords is sort of silly...
LordBOB777 03-03-07, 02:38 PM	That and the idea if wielding two great swords is sort of silly... Personally, if I saw someone running towards me holding two greatswords I would NOT be laughing or thinking that its silly. I would run like a hobo after a bologna sandwich
Tetsubo 03-03-07, 02:41 PM	Personally, if I saw someone running towards me holding two greatswords I would NOT be laughing or thinking that its silly. I would run like a hobo after a bologna sandwich The silly part is that someone thinks you can dual wield great swords... If I saw someone TRYING to dual wield great swords I would probably laugh my tushie off... if he were SUCCEEDING at it I would bow down and worship him because he is defying the laws of physics...
runestar 03-04-07, 01:12 AM	The silly part is that someone thinks you can dual wield great swords... If I saw someone TRYING to dual wield great swords I would probably laugh my tushie off... if he were SUCCEEDING at it I would bow down and worship him because he is defying the laws of physics... It is quite possible to dual wield greatswords. You just need to hold 1 in each hand. The real challenge is wielding them effectively...;) But hey, I only said it was possible, not that it would be feasible... Now, bow down and worship me...:D
Bhaal006 03-04-07, 09:21 AM	Maybe not defying the laws of physics, but he would have to be exceptionaly strong/large, if i saw someone dual-wielding greatswords id shoot him with a bow, cause you'd have to be some sort not-smart-type-person to melee that guy.(assuming we're enemies, allies, i'd go home and make a Bologna and wait for that Hobo to come back)
wonlee76 03-04-07, 01:33 PM	The damage from Two Weapon Rend is fine. The only thing I might consider tweaking is making the base damage scale up or down with the size of the attacker as per the MM rules. So maybe large creature's rends should be 1d8 instead of 1d6. Small creature's rend would be 1d4 or something along those lines. etc. etc. I think a cloud giant rending with his gargantuan weapons dealing only 1d6+1.5 strength seems kind of strange when his gargantuan weapons are dishing out 4d6 (or whatever) normally.
Scion of Coldshard 03-04-07, 03:04 PM	I think that it should do each weapons damage plus strength damage as though using a twohanded weapon. Possibly only give the magical bonuses from one of the two weapons if it is felt that this is too much, but certainly at the very least one of the two. Since the damage from the rend is reduced by damage reduction and it takes a feat and you have to be using twf.. I dont think that it is out of line. d6+1.5 str bonus against DR is basically the same as not having the feat a lot of the time. Plus this way it follows the trend of normal rend a lot more closely.
wonlee76 03-04-07, 07:04 PM	Since the damage from the rend is reduced by damage reduction and it takes a feat and you have to be using twf.. I dont think that it is out of line. d6+1.5 str bonus against DR is basically the same as not having the feat a lot of the time. How does DR enter the picture? It affects all attacks including rend but at least TW Rend gives you your offhand weapon for purposes of bypassing DR so it may not be that big of a problem in the grand scheme of things.
Scion of Coldshard 03-04-07, 07:11 PM	How does DR enter the picture? It affects all attacks including rend but at least TW Rend gives you your offhand weapon for purposes of bypassing DR so it may not be that big of a problem in the grand scheme of things. The damage is very low, much lower than it should be given other rends. Two weapon fighters tend not to have that great of a strength since they need a really good dex. This means that d6+1.5str bonus is most likely washed away with even DR 5 which is not exactly uncommon. So, it enters the picture in that it completely destroys the feat. Is it the only problem? Not at all, but it is part of the problem. If the extra damage added on to the second weapons damage it would be much better. Although not scaling with different weapons or sizes would still leave it in desperate need of repair.
Thugorp 03-04-07, 07:14 PM	Personally, if I saw someone running towards me holding two greatswords I would NOT be laughing or thinking that its silly. I would run like a hobo after a bologna sandwich siged
Thugorp 03-04-07, 09:29 PM	Hay before I steped on you're toas I thought I would ask you if you mind if I started a thread asking about two weapon defence, or if you wanted me to wate untill this thread dies?
jaelis 03-04-07, 11:11 PM	The damage is very low, much lower than it should be given other rends. Two weapon fighters tend not to have that great of a strength since they need a really good dex. Rangers don't need a particularly good dex, and they should certainly have a high strength. Even at Str 22, you've got about 12 points of rend damage. I'd be satisfied with that. Yes, it doesn't help much vs DR, but then if you're up against DR, you should probably just leave that off-hand weapon in the sheath and THF instead.
Scion of Coldshard 03-04-07, 11:20 PM	And of course rangers are also limited to light armor so will tend to have a high dex anyway. Although they can be the exception to the lower tendency in strength due to not having to meet the high dex requirement. The feat just does not do enough damage base line and it is silly when sizes start changing or different weapons are used. Very poor and needs to be changed. My change given above makes it worthwhile and it makes more sense besides. Edit: Plus, if you are going to just leave your second weapon its sheathe and fight with a two handed weapon you are now quite a few feats behind. Ouch. It can be done but this feat as written further reinforces two weapon fighting sucking and being very feat intensive besides.
inthesto 03-04-07, 11:34 PM	And why can't I dual wield 2 greatswords? Oh right, the 3.0 monkey grip no longer existed...:embarrass And that's why you just pick up a spiked heavy shield of bashing instead. :P
jaelis 03-04-07, 11:41 PM	Edit: Plus, if you are going to just leave your second weapon its sheathe and fight with a two handed weapon you are now quite a few feats behind. Ouch. It can be done but this feat as written further reinforces two weapon fighting sucking and being very feat intensive besides. Unless you're a ranger :)
Scion of Coldshard 03-05-07, 10:16 AM	Unless you're a ranger :) Since the ranger could have had ranged feats instead, or maybe even some alternate fighting style allowed by the dm, then it is true even for him ;)
Tectorman 03-05-07, 10:35 AM	So, what would you call Cloud Strife (if I spelled the name wrong, oh well) in Final Fantasy 7: Advent Children? Those are either Large bastard swords or greatswords that he's flinging around, and (commenting on the fight scenes ONLY) it looked cool, not silly. But that is correct. Unless you're some kind of marilith or mutant sahuagin, you can't wield more than one greatsword for two-weapon fighting.
jameswilliamogle 03-05-07, 03:43 PM	I call Cloud non-dnd. Anyways, what if you had 4 arms? Couldn't you dual-wield then? Thrikeen Dual-Greatsword Barbarian for teh win!
LordBOB777 03-05-07, 06:31 PM	siged HOLY CRAP.... I GOT SIGED!!!!!!!! *Feels wonderful*
runestar 03-06-07, 01:48 AM	Anyways, what if you had 4 arms? Couldn't you dual-wield then? Thrikeen Dual-Greatsword Barbarian for teh win! I suppose you could, but the mechanics would be quite wonky. I think the greatsword you wield with both your off-hands would only get str mod to damage(0.5+0.5), rather than 1.5. I guess power attack damage would still be doubled appropriately. Hmm...a marilith with 3 spiked chains...:cool:
Moccanime 03-07-07, 08:37 AM	We have a houserule that Rend bypass Damgae Reduction, this makes this feat quite usefull as TWF often suffer when fighting opponents with DR.