Post/Author/DateTime	Post
T_Stalker 09-09-07, 05:03 PM	Okay, this is a probably crazy idea, but I was a little annoyed at the rules for the craft skill, so I was thinking of a way to speed up the process by lowering the cost. - Step one: get your base materials - Step two: shrink all that stuff up, this might be a little costly, depending how you do it. Optional, since I'm really not sure how to do this mechanically: - step thee: combine your necessary craft skill with Craft(toy making) You're actually making a functioning miniature version of whatever it is you're making, which should result in a lower cost. This could make it possible to let your craft checks take only a day instead of a week. Point here is just to make craft go faster without Fabricate. I'm just not sure about the mechanics. It's probably a good idea to raise the DC as well, since you need to work more precise. Suggestions are welcome. On a side note: Does anyone know how to speed up craft(Alchemy) ?
Kyuketsukiouji 09-09-07, 07:24 PM	You can reduce the time it takes to make anything by voluntarily raising the craft DC in increments of 10 (Epic handbook, p. 40).
war_thog 09-09-07, 08:46 PM	Don't even need to go epic to find that rule. Its in PHB under craft. The time taken to craft something in DnD is disproportionately long. House rule it. Shrinking it and making a minitiure version then enlarging it isnt the same. Might seem like itd work, but I dont think it would. For one it wouldnt really cost any less. Making mini versions take a really long time as its so much harder to do. The "cost" would increase. You use same amount of materials. But it takes more man hours. So cost more.
T_Stalker 09-10-07, 05:58 AM	I already knew about the rule that said you can take the price of the item in copper instead of silver for the check. I don't think however this is do-able for most things people like to make. I'm at work now, so I can't do the math, but quick by heart I'd say this requires a result of over a million if you want to make a fullplate. Making toy swords or carriages, doesn't seem so much more time consuming then it would to make the real life counterpart. Heck, I used to hobby in RC Cars, I could take one appart and put it back together in a day, with the real deal however ... Keep in mind that DnD mostly is low tech, so it's not like a lot of things have really complicated parts. To me it would seem simpler if you could work on a miniature instead. (I was imagining my halfling fixing a broken cart wheel when I first thought of this. Since I couldn't think of a little guy strapping on a new wheel that's bigger then him.)
Lia Nightdemon 09-10-07, 06:02 AM	that rule was never in the 3.0 phb, thats why it's in the epic handbook. But in 3.5 they merged some of the epic stuff with the normal handbooks. Yet they still haven't given us anything on epic magic items or the like for 3.5, or the updated epic monsters, like the prismatic dragon.
war_thog 09-10-07, 07:24 AM	The copper piece thing is a 1 day check thing and ends up being slower than SP. I spose you could do it small. But a medium creature trying to forge a tiny sword in just the right way so taht if expanded it is perfect for a big size? Sounds difficult. And just on cars and what not..... You can take a car apart in a day and put it back together. Its bigger and heavier so needs more people thats all. Carrying an engine by yourself is a bad idea. Some guys as a muckup day prank took a teachers car apart and put it back together in the staff room. That was truly hilarious.
T_Stalker 09-10-07, 07:35 AM	Well then yes, like you said "multiple people". I think everybody has heard about the car/staffroom thing before, good reminder though ;) But come on people, as far as I know, nobody likes the outrageous time it takes to craft something. Aside from Fabricate, are there any other tricks people use to speed up the process? And does Fabricate actually work on craft(Alchemy)? Oh, and my wizard/rogue is going to be Small (Strongheart Halfing), just so you know.
Lia Nightdemon 09-10-07, 04:01 PM	fabricate whole point is for craft skills. It even says in the description requires craft checks for difficult stuff
Ephraim 09-20-07, 07:11 PM	fabricate whole point is for craft skills. It even says in the description requires craft checks for difficult stuff The problem with this is that it suggests that the only crafters worth a damn are fairly high-level arcane magic users. This defies logic. There are many mundane NPC crafters who do not meet this qualification. It really feels like the craft rules are either designed such that nobody would want to use them or poorly designed because somewhere along the lines, WotC decided nobody was going to use them anyway, so why bother? In addition to the ridiculous amount of time for a party to craft its own equipment, there are other gross inadequacies in the way that items are priced. Consider the following example: Joe finds a mithril chain shirt while adventuring but decides that he really doesn't need a chain shirt and that he'd rather have a mithril shield. He melts the shirt down into 25 pounds of raw mithril. That should be enough to make four small, mithril shields, right? However, it will take almost as long to make a mithril shield as it takes to make a mithril shirt. Never mind that the shirt weights four times as much and has more intricate craftsmanship. The cost adder of making a shield or armour out of mithril is 1000 gp. Now, bear in mind that the price of a steel chain shirt is 100gp and a steel shield is 9gp. That's a ratio of 11, which is probably a good indicator of the combined effect of a chain shirt requiring more effort and 4 times more material. But because of the +1000 gp rule, a mithril chain shirt costs 1100 and a mithril small shield costs 1009. That's a ratio of about 1.1. It just doesn't make any sense. The shield should still be about 11 times less expensive to make, regardless of what material it's made out of!