Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LunarWolfPrime 12-30-07, 12:19 AM	Telling Blow says that on makeing a crit that you add either your sneak atk die or skermish die after the crit mult What i am wondering what if it was a sneak or a skermish atk so are you basicaly rolling twice for that situation The reason why i am asking this is to just make sure i am reading it right sorry for spelling a gramer errors it is late and i feel like well you know happy new years New Telling blow Q if you let it do the SA on a crit can you use ambush feats
DarkRhystar 12-30-07, 12:28 AM	What it does do: Allows you to deal Sneak Attack or Skirmish damage upon scoring a critical hit. What it does NOT do: It does NOT multiply Sneak Attack or Skirmish damage by your critical multiplier. What it does NOT do: It does NOT allow you to deal Sneak Attack or Skirmish damage multiple times on a single attack.
BananaB 12-30-07, 12:31 AM	You only get your SA or skirmish dmg once. The feat allows you to use your abilities for extra damage when striking a vital spot to be used when you hit that vital spot by chance with a critical hit. A vital spot is a vital spot, so there is no reason to deal extra sneak or skirmish dmg when its already been added.
Nebo 12-30-07, 12:32 AM	It merely adds another condition under which you can apply sneak attack or skirmish damage. You do not get sneak attack or skirmish twice.
LunarWolfPrime 12-30-07, 06:30 PM	It merely adds another condition under which you can apply sneak attack or skirmish damage. You do not get sneak attack or skirmish twice. thank you
LunarWolfPrime 12-31-07, 12:27 PM	:bump:
LunarWolfPrime 01-02-08, 04:17 PM	Let me say this again if it lets you SA on crits can you use ambush feats with a SA brought on by this feat. On a diffrent note as long as you keep trading 4d6 off of the SA you can keep SAing every turn
Malchius 01-02-08, 04:20 PM	Yes, you can use ambush feats as you are making a normal sneak attack, in addition to the damage from the Critical Hit.
Hsien 01-02-08, 05:24 PM	Telling Blow is not a Sneak Attack and therefore Ambush feats don't apply, if they specify they are triggered by a successful sneak attack. TB provides another criteria where that pool of Precision based damage is accessed but is not the same as an actual "Sneak attack."
Malchius 01-02-08, 05:29 PM	Telling Blow is not a Sneak Attack and therefore Ambush feats don't apply, if they specify they are triggered by a successful sneak attack. TB provides another criteria where that pool of Precision based damage is accessed but is not the same as an actual "Sneak attack." You appear to be right, as it says you add your Sudden Strike or Sneak Attack damage, but does not say you Sneak Attack. However, this is an interpetation, therefore couldn't also interpret that the effect of an Ambush feat constitutes damage?
Father Dale 01-04-08, 12:52 PM	Hmm, this opens up an interesting conundrum. If the Telling Blow feat is read as 'adding an additional condition that triggers your sneak attack or skirmish damage,' then it would seem to imply that you could use ambush type feats on it. Just to clarify: Normally, you can trigger sneak attack damage in one of two ways: a) the target is denied is dexterity to AC, or b) you are flanking the target. If Telling Blow is read to add a third trigger, such that you have: c) or, you score a critical hit against the target. Then the implication is that 1) you can only add the SA damage once, even if you are flanking the target and score a critical hit (compare to a rogue who doesn't have telling blow, and who is flanking a target denied its dexterity to AC...he doesn't get double SA damage), but 2) you can use your ambush feats on the attack. However, if Telling Blow is interpreted to mean that you simply add extra damage to critical hits equal to your SA damage, then you couldn't use your ambush feats with it. Because its not a SA, its just extra damage (comparable to say the epic feat Overwhelming Critical) BUT, that would not be the same as an additional trigger condition for SA. Thus, it should allow for the potential of double SA damage if you are say flanking the target and score a critical hit. (Comparable to an epic rogue with Overwhelming critical who sneak attacks a target.) Also, under this interpretation, the extra damage from Telling Blow would not be negated by such things as concealment or other conditions that otherwise negate precision damage. So, it seems to me that telling blow should operate in either of those two ways, but definitely NOT in such a way that you only get the SA damage once and you also cannot use this to use ambush feats. It would seem that either way the feat is interpretted, one of those two should be allowed. Personally, I read it as creating an extra condition that triggers sneak attacks, hence no double damage, but useable with ambush feats. I wouldn't consider this overpowered in the slightest, since feats are hard to come by for rogue types anyways, and taking telling blow and ambush feats is a significant investment for such characters (and would likely prevent the taking of the Spring Attack route or the TWFing route, unless heavily investing in fighter or ranger levels.) Plus actually being in the situation where telling blow comes into play but not the other SA triggers has, in my experience, not been all that common (with the exception of telling blow scouts), since rogues are always looking to get into situations where SA comes into play anyways, even with the telling blow feat. So, I'd figure that you might see the situation of a Telling Blow rogue wanting to use an ambush feat on a critical atatck in which he is not flanking and the target is not denied its dexterity as coming up maybe once every gaming session or two.
Merestil Haye 01-04-08, 02:43 PM	According to the FAQ :When a rogue with the Telling Blow feat (PHB II, pg. 83) deals a critical hit against a flat-footed enemy, does she add her sneak attack damage twice? No. The feat simply adds another criteria that “activates” your sneak attack or skirmish damage; it doesn’t allow either of those values to be added twice.From this, it's easy to see which of Father Dales options is the correct one. Since it reads to me like they get the SA damage, abilities affecting or depending on SA should apply.
Hsien 01-04-08, 03:11 PM	The wording of the ambush feat text would decide it; don't have books on me. So 2 basic possibilities for Ambush wording... ~When you deal Sneak damage~ TB could work as it triggers the same precision damage dice pool. ~On a successful sneak attack~ TB would not apply, as TB is not equal to a successful sneak attack. TB triggers only on a confirmed critical, not by flanking or dex loss. Why do I feel like caughing after typing TB so much? :yuck: