Post/Author/DateTime	Post
gixanthrax 01-20-08, 07:29 PM	I know, the thematic is partly covered in some other threads, but, this is the culmination of the thoughts i gathered within the last hours reading the forum, and i did not want to derail other threads too much so: Would it be a legitimate course of action, after stocking these feats and their requirements, to Charge at an opponent, using leap attack and pounce to make an devastating attack, then use your spring attack ability to get some feet away, use your HIPS, leave the combat by staying immobile and hidden and then restart the process?:confused: If i had levels in rogue and a high enough hide check, could these attacks do an aditional SA damage? I f all this is combineable, everybody say: hello feral shadow whispergnome Fighter/Rogue
Bopple 01-20-08, 07:42 PM	Only the first attack is sneak-attack.
Droma 01-20-08, 09:27 PM	It wouldnt work. Charging is a full round action, pounce lets you then do a full attack which also technically is a full round action. Charging with the pounce is legal. However using spring attack is not because after the charge you've used a full round action so can't move anymore. Bopple is correct about the SA dmg. Unless your charging into a position where you gain flanking only the first attack would gain SA dmg.
gixanthrax 01-21-08, 08:11 AM	Ah ok, i see my mistake concerning pouncing/ charging and spring attack. So whenever I use spring attack I'm reduced to one attack each round, unless I'm under the influence of a haste spell or something similar. Well, for SA I would rule that the opponent gets a spot check with an situational bonus of +20 after the first successful hit he recieves opposed by the rogues original Hide check...
PrinceOfTheVoid 01-21-08, 10:02 AM	You could also use Bounding Assault and Rapid Blitz from Players Handbook 2, plus TWF and a Speed Weapon in each hand, and maybe Dual Strike from CA, but I can't remember if that works on a Spring Attack or not.
Bopple 01-21-08, 11:43 AM	If you have HiPS, then I guess you can do it... BTW, while attacking, you already get -20 penalty to Hide.
Captain_Kobold 01-21-08, 01:34 PM	So whenever I use spring attack I'm reduced to one attack each round, unless I'm under the influence of a haste spell or something similar. Well, for SA I would rule that the opponent gets a spot check with an situational bonus of +20 after the first successful hit he recieves opposed by the rogues original Hide check... A Haste spell won't help you to gain extra attacks whilst using spring attack. I think that there might be a feat or two that allow extra attacks as part of a spring attack but they generally have high BAB requirements or two-weapon fighting. If you have HiPS then as long as you can reach enough cover or concealment to meake a hide check, your opponent will not know where you went after you attacked him.
ravenshrike 01-21-08, 06:25 PM	Only the first attack is sneak-attack. You got a reliable cite for this? I've always played it treated as the first round of combat for flat-footedness in response to the person who is no longer hiding.
Bopple 01-21-08, 11:45 PM	It's in FAQ. Once in 3.0 FAQ and another in 3.5 FAQ.
Tsuul 01-22-08, 02:20 AM	So whenever I use spring attack I'm reduced to one attack each round, unless I'm under the influence of a haste spell or something similar.Haste or similar won't kick in for a single attack, only for a full round action. You got a reliable cite for this? I've always played it treated as the first round of combat for flat-footedness in response to the person who is no longer hiding.If the person is flatfooted, then he has no dex and all attacks are able to be sneak attacks. If you are doing this in combat to a person who is not flat-footed then the rule in Comp Adv kicks in and the person is only treated as flatfooted for the first attack.
Lyndis 01-22-08, 04:28 AM	There is a way to get Sneak attacks on every single attack. You must be able to hide between each attack (at a -20 penalty). For example, a guard is standing around next to a bush. You're in the bush, hiding. You make an attack, gettin a sneak attack in. You can then hide before the guard can figure out where you are by making a hide check opposed by the guard's spot check, with a -20 penalty on your part. If you succed, you remain hidden, and you can do yournext iterative attack as a sneak attack as well (and the guard is still flat-footed). This is noticably easier if have Camoflage or some other ability that doesn't require Concealment for you to Hide.
Spikes01k 01-22-08, 07:27 AM	It's in FAQ. Once in 3.0 FAQ and another in 3.5 FAQ. Well then find it please.
Captain_Kobold 01-22-08, 08:22 AM	There is a way to get Sneak attacks on every single attack. You must be able to hide between each attack (at a -20 penalty). For example, a guard is standing around next to a bush. You're in the bush, hiding. You make an attack, gettin a sneak attack in. You can then hide before the guard can figure out where you are by making a hide check opposed by the guard's spot check, with a -20 penalty on your part. If you succed, you remain hidden, and you can do yournext iterative attack as a sneak attack as well (and the guard is still flat-footed). This is noticably easier if have Camoflage or some other ability that doesn't require Concealment for you to Hide. Doesn't it require a move action to hide? Unless it is a free action, you will not be able to hide each time between iterative attacks.
Bopple 01-22-08, 08:40 AM	First of all, the condition of being denied to Dex bonus != condition of flat-footedness. And my first answer was not considering HiPS. So I added the second answer. With HiPS, all your iterative attacks can be sneak-attack, if you win the opposed skill check. As for FAQ, you can find it in pp41. I wouldn't bother to quote it, because you can easily find it and it's already been covered in this thread, anyway.
Bopple 01-22-08, 08:49 AM	Doesn't it require a move action to hide? Unless it is a free action, you will not be able to hide each time between iterative attacks. Yeah, but the description itself is not complete, in the first place. For example, It’s practically impossible (–20 penalty) to hide while attacking, running or charging. It seems that once you hide, action itself do not reveal you automatically. It's just that the action grants the enemies another opportunity to notice you and bonus to Spot, while giving you penalty to your Hide roll(already rolled, when you first try to Hide).
Captain_Kobold 01-22-08, 09:12 AM	Isn't that covered in the section on sniping? You can attack and then use the Hide movement action with the -20 penalty. If successful, you remain hidden from your opponent, and so can get a sneak attack off on him next round. Your opponent can make things somewhat harder for you by moving away from the cover.
ravenshrike 01-22-08, 12:19 PM	It's in FAQ. Once in 3.0 FAQ and another in 3.5 FAQ. Ah okay, so this is one of those FAQ rulings designed to nerf the power of an ability then, and not one which makes any sense whatsoever when viewed through the other portions of the game.
Bopple 01-22-08, 08:42 PM	I am not sure what is wrong with it? My first answer was assuming about the case without HiPS. With HiPS, you can.