Pounce + Spring Attack/Bounding Assault/etc [Archive] - Wizards Community

Pounce + Spring Attack/Bounding Assault/etc [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
bkdubs123
11-14-07, 04:39 PM How does it work if you say... Jump 10ft onto a target (counts as a charge right?) but then you have more movement left and have Bounding Assault and Rapid Blitz and so you continue flashing around and murdering people, but now to throw the wrench in you have Pounce? Do you only pounce on the last person you attack in this Blitz? Do you only pounce on the first person you attacked? Can you pounce on all of them if you charge (ie: jump 10ft at them) at all of them?

Thanks in advance.
Tordak
11-14-07, 04:54 PM No, to qualify as a charge you need to charge the target, that is selecting the full round action charge. Pounce of course only work if you charge (that's how all the pounce I've read so far works). Unless you have a very very special ability or feat, you can't charge in a round where you use spring attack/bounding assault/rapid blitz, as the last ones require your standard action (taking the attack action) and your move action to move before, between and/or after the attack.

So no pouncing and 'springing'. You can jump and pounce of course if you jump as part of your charge, which I think requires the leap attack feat (I don't remember if you can jump as part of a charge normally).
bkdubs123
11-14-07, 05:50 PM okay, yeah, sorry, no books in front of me at the moment. yeah you can always jump as part of a charge (no need for the leap attack feat) I just wasn't sure what kind of action spring/bound/blitz was.

Anyway thanks for clearing that up!
Uloquiorra
11-14-07, 07:55 PM As I can remember the Jump actions do not route to a Charge attack as this is only a jump even with the Pounce ability, It require a feat to perform that, I, personnally recomends the feat Battle Jump (From Unapproachable East - Forgotten Realms) which require you to be born as Taer or have 2 points on skill Knowledge (Local Taer). The Battle Jump feat says that If you jump at least 5ft (Horizontally or Vertically) its possible to make a Trip attack (granting you as Large size bonus), an Grapple attack (granting you as Large size bonus) or a Charge attack.
About the other feats I really don't know if is possible to make them as part of a charge, as I can remember It's NOT POSSIBLE to make a Spring Attack before a charge, but its debatable as ORIGINALLY ,with the Battle Jump, you're making a Jump check that ENABLES you to make a Charge Attack, so i think that is possible to make a Spring Attack and Jump to another enemy just as Tumble.

I HAVE A QUESTION NOW:

If I have the Pounce Ability and Charge an enemy how the damage is multiplied? I think that the "Pouncing Charge" makes ALL the attacks damage that hit the enemy, multiplied by 2; But thinking in that manner implies in a OVERPOWERED damage, so what i guess is that "Pouncing Charge" make ONE attack multiplied by 2 THEN make full attack normally. What is the correct? Could someone help about this?:confused:

Thanks in advance.
dman11235
11-14-07, 08:22 PM Neither punce nor charge increases the damage you do. The exception is a mounted charge with a lance and the bonus damage from Leap Attack.
Uloquiorra
11-14-07, 08:52 PM Surelly?

The Charge action on PHB said that you make ONE attack with +2 to hit, damage multiplied by 2 and -2 to AC, the Pounce ability enables you to make a Full Attack as a part of Charge Attack, so could you please specify what is the advantage of using the Charge attack option? It´s ONLY to get a +2 to HIT and forego -2 to AC??? and how about the builds that was placed about Charge action?

Please specify me what is the purposal of the Valorous Weapon on UE-FR weapon enchant and the Rhino's Hide...its only possible to make charge damage with a mount..if yes so the uber charger is a Centaurs....

PLEASE ANSWER ME !!!!!!:weep:
bkdubs123
11-14-07, 10:58 PM NO. What are you talking about Ulo? Charge says absolutely NOTHING about multiplying damage. You can double damage after a charge using specific feats and weapons (Lances and Spears deal double damage after charge, Spirited Charge doubles damage after a charge, and the Cavalier class pushes the multipliers as high as x5 IIRC after a charge). The normal charge action that everyone can do is yes simply +2 to hit, -2 to AC. If you really want to hit a guy, you charge.

You can use any move action as a part of a charge (As far as I'm aware) so long as you move at least 10ft. Battlejump might reduce that distance to 5ft I dunno, I'm not familiar with the feat. But yes, if you can jump 10ft with a jump check then you can jump at a person with a charge.
dman11235
11-15-07, 12:07 AM No, charging is a full round action. You cannot take a move action and charge in the same turn (barring other factors like a belt of battle or something). Here is the SRD text. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#charge) There are some things that you can do as they are part of movement (like tumble and jump). There is a distiction there.
Bahumut
11-15-07, 12:30 AM everyone has covered what you CANT do...one thing you can do is add pounce to a leap attack/power attack/shock trooper/etc build for multiple attacks of painful damage ouchies.
bkdubs123
11-15-07, 02:14 AM Right, I guess I was certainly out of line when I said that you could use any move action during a charge. Yeah, I meant that you could use any action that you can use as part of movement. Yes, there is a distinction there.
Uloquiorra
11-15-07, 11:20 AM Oh my god :eek:,

Sorry for everyone, I'm now see what I wronged, I'm really sorry for that mistake, so the Charge attack is +2 to hit and -2 to AC simply that, so a manner to multiply the damage is to imply the Valorous Weapon Enchantment from UE-FR and the Rhino's Hide from DMG but how about the Pounce Ability? How can I calculate the damage with those items that multiply the damage of the charge (x3) and the Pounce Ability together?, Its possible to make a Pounce from a horse? And how about Tauric creatures? they get the bonus multiplier from a Charge Action + Lance?:confused:
DMaple
11-15-07, 11:56 AM 7th level Druid/1st Fighter, having a Lion as his animal companion trained for Combat Riding,

Feats
1st-Mounted Combat,
Human-Ride-by-Attack,
3rd-Extra Wild Shape
6th-Lion's Pounce
Fighter 1st: Spirited Charge

He could ride-by his opponent do a full attack (+8/+3 before Strength bonus) with a wooden lance and then ride off, without provoking an AoO. Since the mount is also charging the Lion could also do his full attack as well, due to it's own Pounce ability.

And since the Lance is Wooden he could cast Spikes on it for +21 damage (+7x3).

He could do it five times a day, alternatively you could swap the feats around and instead of Extra Wild Shape take WF: Lance to have a better chance of hitting.

So without accounting for attribute bonus or magic weapons other than Spikes.

Druid two attacks at 3d8+21 at +8 and +3
Lion 2 Claws at +9 1d4+5
2 Rakes at +9 1d4+2
and Bite +4 at 1d8+2

and then ride off into the sunset.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bkdubs123 11-14-07, 04:39 PM	How does it work if you say... Jump 10ft onto a target (counts as a charge right?) but then you have more movement left and have Bounding Assault and Rapid Blitz and so you continue flashing around and murdering people, but now to throw the wrench in you have Pounce? Do you only pounce on the last person you attack in this Blitz? Do you only pounce on the first person you attacked? Can you pounce on all of them if you charge (ie: jump 10ft at them) at all of them? Thanks in advance.
Tordak 11-14-07, 04:54 PM	No, to qualify as a charge you need to charge the target, that is selecting the full round action charge. Pounce of course only work if you charge (that's how all the pounce I've read so far works). Unless you have a very very special ability or feat, you can't charge in a round where you use spring attack/bounding assault/rapid blitz, as the last ones require your standard action (taking the attack action) and your move action to move before, between and/or after the attack. So no pouncing and 'springing'. You can jump and pounce of course if you jump as part of your charge, which I think requires the leap attack feat (I don't remember if you can jump as part of a charge normally).
bkdubs123 11-14-07, 05:50 PM	okay, yeah, sorry, no books in front of me at the moment. yeah you can always jump as part of a charge (no need for the leap attack feat) I just wasn't sure what kind of action spring/bound/blitz was. Anyway thanks for clearing that up!
Uloquiorra 11-14-07, 07:55 PM	As I can remember the Jump actions do not route to a Charge attack as this is only a jump even with the Pounce ability, It require a feat to perform that, I, personnally recomends the feat Battle Jump (From Unapproachable East - Forgotten Realms) which require you to be born as Taer or have 2 points on skill Knowledge (Local Taer). The Battle Jump feat says that If you jump at least 5ft (Horizontally or Vertically) its possible to make a Trip attack (granting you as Large size bonus), an Grapple attack (granting you as Large size bonus) or a Charge attack. About the other feats I really don't know if is possible to make them as part of a charge, as I can remember It's NOT POSSIBLE to make a Spring Attack before a charge, but its debatable as ORIGINALLY ,with the Battle Jump, you're making a Jump check that ENABLES you to make a Charge Attack, so i think that is possible to make a Spring Attack and Jump to another enemy just as Tumble. I HAVE A QUESTION NOW: If I have the Pounce Ability and Charge an enemy how the damage is multiplied? I think that the "Pouncing Charge" makes ALL the attacks damage that hit the enemy, multiplied by 2; But thinking in that manner implies in a OVERPOWERED damage, so what i guess is that "Pouncing Charge" make ONE attack multiplied by 2 THEN make full attack normally. What is the correct? Could someone help about this?:confused: Thanks in advance.
dman11235 11-14-07, 08:22 PM	Neither punce nor charge increases the damage you do. The exception is a mounted charge with a lance and the bonus damage from Leap Attack.
Uloquiorra 11-14-07, 08:52 PM	Surelly? The Charge action on PHB said that you make ONE attack with +2 to hit, damage multiplied by 2 and -2 to AC, the Pounce ability enables you to make a Full Attack as a part of Charge Attack, so could you please specify what is the advantage of using the Charge attack option? It´s ONLY to get a +2 to HIT and forego -2 to AC??? and how about the builds that was placed about Charge action? Please specify me what is the purposal of the Valorous Weapon on UE-FR weapon enchant and the Rhino's Hide...its only possible to make charge damage with a mount..if yes so the uber charger is a Centaurs.... PLEASE ANSWER ME !!!!!!:weep:
bkdubs123 11-14-07, 10:58 PM	NO. What are you talking about Ulo? Charge says absolutely NOTHING about multiplying damage. You can double damage after a charge using specific feats and weapons (Lances and Spears deal double damage after charge, Spirited Charge doubles damage after a charge, and the Cavalier class pushes the multipliers as high as x5 IIRC after a charge). The normal charge action that everyone can do is yes simply +2 to hit, -2 to AC. If you really want to hit a guy, you charge. You can use any move action as a part of a charge (As far as I'm aware) so long as you move at least 10ft. Battlejump might reduce that distance to 5ft I dunno, I'm not familiar with the feat. But yes, if you can jump 10ft with a jump check then you can jump at a person with a charge.
dman11235 11-15-07, 12:07 AM	No, charging is a full round action. You cannot take a move action and charge in the same turn (barring other factors like a belt of battle or something). Here is the SRD text. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#charge) There are some things that you can do as they are part of movement (like tumble and jump). There is a distiction there.
Bahumut 11-15-07, 12:30 AM	everyone has covered what you CANT do...one thing you can do is add pounce to a leap attack/power attack/shock trooper/etc build for multiple attacks of painful damage ouchies.
bkdubs123 11-15-07, 02:14 AM	Right, I guess I was certainly out of line when I said that you could use any move action during a charge. Yeah, I meant that you could use any action that you can use as part of movement. Yes, there is a distinction there.
Uloquiorra 11-15-07, 11:20 AM	Oh my god :eek:, Sorry for everyone, I'm now see what I wronged, I'm really sorry for that mistake, so the Charge attack is +2 to hit and -2 to AC simply that, so a manner to multiply the damage is to imply the Valorous Weapon Enchantment from UE-FR and the Rhino's Hide from DMG but how about the Pounce Ability? How can I calculate the damage with those items that multiply the damage of the charge (x3) and the Pounce Ability together?, Its possible to make a Pounce from a horse? And how about Tauric creatures? they get the bonus multiplier from a Charge Action + Lance?:confused:
DMaple 11-15-07, 11:56 AM	7th level Druid/1st Fighter, having a Lion as his animal companion trained for Combat Riding, Feats 1st-Mounted Combat, Human-Ride-by-Attack, 3rd-Extra Wild Shape 6th-Lion's Pounce Fighter 1st: Spirited Charge He could ride-by his opponent do a full attack (+8/+3 before Strength bonus) with a wooden lance and then ride off, without provoking an AoO. Since the mount is also charging the Lion could also do his full attack as well, due to it's own Pounce ability. And since the Lance is Wooden he could cast Spikes on it for +21 damage (+7x3). He could do it five times a day, alternatively you could swap the feats around and instead of Extra Wild Shape take WF: Lance to have a better chance of hitting. So without accounting for attribute bonus or magic weapons other than Spikes. Druid two attacks at 3d8+21 at +8 and +3 Lion 2 Claws at +9 1d4+5 2 Rakes at +9 1d4+2 and Bite +4 at 1d8+2 and then ride off into the sunset.