Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ramhammer 03-02-08, 03:07 PM	Do you multiply power att with a crit?
Rymosrac 03-02-08, 03:14 PM	Yes. You always mutiply any stright numerical damage bonuses on a crit. Meaning bonus damage dice are not multiplied. Both of these statements are correct unless explicitly stated otherwise as far as I am aware.
Suspect_Unusual 03-02-08, 03:15 PM	In one interpretation, if you're using a two-handed weapon and Power Attacking, you're already doubling a certain amount - if you get a crit (and thus deal x2 damage), the doubling would work like all abstract value D&D doubling works - add one less multiplier than the damage multiplier used. You'd end up with a 1:3 damage tradeoff is using a x2 weapon and swinging your weapon two-handedly. There might be a problem or two, since strength to damage, if memory serves, is worded vaguely similarly.
ramhammer 03-02-08, 03:30 PM	Sometimes a rule makes you multiply a number or a die roll. As long as you’re applying a single multiplier, multiply the number normally. When two or more multipliers apply to any abstract value (such as a modifier or a die roll), however, combine them into a single multiple, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its value to the first multiple. Thus, a double (×2) and a double (×2) applied to the same number results in a triple (×3, because 2 + 1 = 3).From the SRD I am using a war axe x3 crit power att of 10 two haneded = 20 so would it be (10x2)(3)= 60 or abstract value x2 + x3 = x4 which would be 40. I also use leap att that says it multilies power att x3. That would look the same as a crit. But a crit with power att and lead att could be (10x2)(3)(3) =180 or abstract value x2 + x3 + x3 = x7 10X7 = 70. And I need to see where it says you can multiply power att my DM and otherplays think you can't. This makes my melee fighter not so good. I looked in the SRD but had no luck. Only that damage over an beyond the noraml damage is not multiplied such as sneak att and dice from things like flameing.
Rymosrac 03-02-08, 04:53 PM	Okay, leap attack got errata'd. It's just a striahgt +100% to the efficiency tradeoff. So you've got 2-1 ratio form two-handed, changed to a 4-1 ratio form leap attack, and (in my games) a crit from a x3 weapon would bring that up to 12-1. Yeah, it's a lot of damage. But it should be. That's how the rules work. If you really want proff you can take to your DM, ask CustServ. This one ought to be obvious enough for them to reliably back you up on. If, like your DM says, bonuses like power attack don't multiply on crits - Then crits will very quickly become meaningless as you get higher in levels, as all they will be multiplying will be the base weapon damage. A crit would end up just being the difference between 215 damage, and 230 damage. Or something. Woohoo! CRITICAL HIT! +2% damage! Yeah! Seriously. You multiply everything that isn't bonus dice or doesn't explicitly say that it doesn't multiply. I could see an argument for two-handed and crit both being multipliers that will stack together for a total of x5 (+1 two-handed, +1 leap attack, +2 crit), but. . . That's not how I rule in my games. My call is that modifiers to power attack affect your total damage output, which is all your bonuses, modifiers on those bonuses, and the base weapon damage. Crits then effect that number as a seperate multiplication from the power attack multiplication. This would give you an effective 12-1 return on power attack on a leap attack x3 crit with a two-handed weapon.
mplindustries 03-02-08, 10:52 PM	Okay, leap attack got errata'd. It's just a striahgt +100% to the efficiency tradeoff. So you've got 2-1 ratio form two-handed, changed to a 4-1 ratio form leap attack, and (in my games) a crit from a x3 weapon would bring that up to 12-1. Yeah, it's a lot of damage. But it should be. . Slightly off topic: Leap attack adds 100% to power attack...so it becomes 3 to 1, not 4 to 1. Being two handed also adds 100%, so that means you're doing base power attack +200%, which is 300%. As far as multiplying power attack with a crit...of course you do. The extra damage done by power attack is calculated before you deal critical hit damage. Here is what many people don't understand. By RAW, you are not supposed to roll your damage dice once and then multiply the result, you actually roll damage multiple times. So if you deal 1d10+20 with a waraxe on a normal attack, when you crit, you roll 1d10+20 twice more, so it ends up 3d10+60.
Tonil 03-03-08, 01:29 AM	Here is what many people don't understand. By RAW, you are not supposed to roll your damage dice once and then multiply the result, you actually roll damage multiple times. So if you deal 1d10+20 with a waraxe on a normal attack, when you crit, you roll 1d10+20 twice more, so it ends up 3d10+60. This is correct. You roll damage, then roll it again and add the two results. "A critical hit means that you roll your damage more than once, with all your usual bonuses, and add the rolls together."(PHB p.140) The abstract multipliers rule may apply for each damage roll (for things like Leap Attack), but do not combine these with the second (and third) damage roll. Roll them each up the same way, and then add them.
Shaggy_Shaggs 03-03-08, 01:44 AM	And if your DM thinks Power Attack working on a crit (which it does) is somehow overpowered, ask him what he thinks about Forcecage + Quickened Dimensional Anchor, followed by Cloudkill.
Stockvillain 03-03-08, 01:50 AM	While rolling more dice is the correct way to do it, when you're dealing with the sheer numbers involved in a 2-handed leap attack critical with a weapon that deals a lot of dice, it can really bog down the game, so our group just rolls then multiplies.