Power Attack and the Monk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Power Attack and the Monk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Eco-Mono
05-10-07, 09:37 PM Is it possible for a monk to apply Power Attack to his unarmed strikes? I've seen the feat taken in several monk builds, but I seem to recall unarmed strikes being Light weapons (and as such unable to be used with PA).
kjenks
05-10-07, 09:52 PM SRD
===
POWER ATTACK [GENERAL]
Prerequisite: Str 13.
Benefit: On your action, before making attack rolls for a round, you may choose to subtract a number from all melee attack rolls and add the same number to all melee damage rolls. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The penalty on attacks and bonus on damage apply until your next turn.

Special: If you attack with a two-handed weapon, or with a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands, instead add twice the number subtracted from your attack rolls. You can’t add the bonus from Power Attack to the damage dealt with a light weapon (except with unarmed strikes or natural weapon attacks), even though the penalty on attack rolls still applies. (Normally, you treat a double weapon as a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. If you choose to use a double weapon like a two-handed weapon, attacking with only one end of it in a round, you treat it as a two-handed weapon.)

A fighter may select Power Attack as one of his fighter bonus feats.

===
Novacat
05-11-07, 01:19 AM Is it possible for a monk to apply Power Attack to his unarmed strikes? I've seen the feat taken in several monk builds, but I seem to recall unarmed strikes being Light weapons (and as such unable to be used with PA).
Possible? Yes. The above poster shows that Power Attack lists unarmed strikes as a specific exception.

Suggested? Not really.
ShaRd2000
05-11-07, 04:45 AM The monk doesn't have great BAB, so it's probably not a good idea, unless you know you're going to hit whatever, and are just cleaning house.
penchant
05-11-07, 09:27 AM It really depends on if you've conned your DM into letting you make that Amulet of Truestrike...
TheMagister
05-11-07, 01:33 PM It really depends on if you've conned your DM into letting you make that Amulet of Truestrike...

OR you're doing the Divine Fist thing with smite evil (in which case your MAD must be insane) OR you're using Reckless Offense or some other method of boosting your to-hit OR if you're adding powerattack to a Decisive Strike past level 9 when there's no penalty OR if you've got a really good bard who's enhanced the heck out of your attack mods.

When you build your monk around your party, they're pretty good.
PhaedrusXY
05-11-07, 01:41 PM Monks have three attacks at their full base attack bonus (eventually). So with a few things boosting their attack rolls, power attack can be a good feat for them.
ShinAkuma2
05-11-07, 02:25 PM You know, at worst, a Monk is at -5 to hit compared to a Fighter. Just Power Attack for a little less, and suddenly you and a Fighter have the exact same attack bonus.
penchant
05-11-07, 03:12 PM However monks always have the problem of the ability point spread. To be an effective monk you have to spread between STR, DEX, and WIS. CON is necessary to make up for being a melee fighter with a D8 Hit dice. A fighter only need CON and STR (or DEX but not both). So his combat bonuses are going to be better than a monk's too.
Peregrine_Wolf
05-11-07, 04:12 PM Since unarmed attacks are light weapons, do they work with Weapon Finesse? If so, just go with Dex, Wis, and Con if you really want to...the Str isn't really much needed because, eventually you can make up for that with the damage dice.

This way, Weapon Finesse provides you with better attack bonus, jsut Power Attack as much as you feel like and your doing jsut as well as a Fighter on that...almost =)
PhaedrusXY
05-11-07, 04:26 PM However monks always have the problem of the ability point spread. To be an effective monk you have to spread between STR, DEX, and WIS. You can kind of dump Dex, Str, or Wis. If you don't take Stunning Fist, Dex and Wis both mainly just add onto saves and AC. So you can live without them being sky high.
Since unarmed attacks are light weapons, do they work with Weapon Finesse? Yes, they do. They are one of the few things that you can use both Power Attack and Weapon Finesse on.If so, just go with Dex, Wis, and Con if you really want to...the Str isn't really much needed because, eventually you can make up for that with the damage dice.

This way, Weapon Finesse provides you with better attack bonus, jsut Power Attack as much as you feel like and your doing jsut as well as a Fighter on that...almost =)Exactly. Using this approach, you just need to get your Str to 13-14 using magic bonuses. I prefer to make Str based monks, myself, and not focus on Wis and Dex as much as alot of people do.
penchant
05-11-07, 05:06 PM A monk never gets the damage bonus that a two handed fighter can. If he flurries he is at penalties to hit until mid levels. The best he can do is becoming a charger with flying kick and leap attack, but that pales in comparison with the greatsword charger or a mounted lancer. Sure a Monk's unarmed damage finally maxes out at 2d10 but that not much better than the monkey gripped large greatsword.

I'm not saying that a monk can't power attack or even get respectable damage. I'm just saying that others can do it better and monks are better suited to doing other things. They are built for stunning blow builds and status effects.
ShinAkuma2
05-12-07, 02:24 AM So his combat bonuses are going to be better than a monk's too.

Assuming you get to pick your character's stats.

On a point-buy? Sure. Rolling randomly? Maybe not.
penchant
05-12-07, 10:28 AM most DM's who roll stats still allow people to arrange as you like. There are some hard core ones that go total random.

Even then when you do roll stats, a fighter has two important stats while monk has four (or three if you make sacrifices). Statistically speaking the fighter is still geared more toward combat. As it should be.

Who says that using bare hands in combat has to be equally effective as using advanced weaponry? There is a reason that humans are tool users!
InkBlot
05-12-07, 01:21 PM Power Attack could be worth it if you're using a quaterstaff (or other one- or two-handed monk weapon) in two hands. The enhancement bonus to attack rolls means your attack bonus is going to be higher than an unarmed monk's, and you'll get 2x bonus damage. Then you can Power Attack for those enemies who are easy to hit, but hit back hard or have tons of HP.

However, for an unarmed monk Power Attack is generaly not worth taking. The way the monk class is designed, it just isn't a primary damage-dealer. The best you can do is take one of those feats that works off of stunning fist, but incapacitates your foe for more than 1 round. Your enemy's penalty to AC could offset your penalty from Power Attack.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Eco-Mono 05-10-07, 09:37 PM	Is it possible for a monk to apply Power Attack to his unarmed strikes? I've seen the feat taken in several monk builds, but I seem to recall unarmed strikes being Light weapons (and as such unable to be used with PA).
kjenks 05-10-07, 09:52 PM	SRD === POWER ATTACK [GENERAL] Prerequisite: Str 13. Benefit: On your action, before making attack rolls for a round, you may choose to subtract a number from all melee attack rolls and add the same number to all melee damage rolls. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The penalty on attacks and bonus on damage apply until your next turn. Special: If you attack with a two-handed weapon, or with a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands, instead add twice the number subtracted from your attack rolls. You can’t add the bonus from Power Attack to the damage dealt with a light weapon (except with unarmed strikes or natural weapon attacks), even though the penalty on attack rolls still applies. (Normally, you treat a double weapon as a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. If you choose to use a double weapon like a two-handed weapon, attacking with only one end of it in a round, you treat it as a two-handed weapon.) A fighter may select Power Attack as one of his fighter bonus feats. ===
Novacat 05-11-07, 01:19 AM	Is it possible for a monk to apply Power Attack to his unarmed strikes? I've seen the feat taken in several monk builds, but I seem to recall unarmed strikes being Light weapons (and as such unable to be used with PA). Possible? Yes. The above poster shows that Power Attack lists unarmed strikes as a specific exception. Suggested? Not really.
ShaRd2000 05-11-07, 04:45 AM	The monk doesn't have great BAB, so it's probably not a good idea, unless you know you're going to hit whatever, and are just cleaning house.
penchant 05-11-07, 09:27 AM	It really depends on if you've conned your DM into letting you make that Amulet of Truestrike...
TheMagister 05-11-07, 01:33 PM	It really depends on if you've conned your DM into letting you make that Amulet of Truestrike... OR you're doing the Divine Fist thing with smite evil (in which case your MAD must be insane) OR you're using Reckless Offense or some other method of boosting your to-hit OR if you're adding powerattack to a Decisive Strike past level 9 when there's no penalty OR if you've got a really good bard who's enhanced the heck out of your attack mods. When you build your monk around your party, they're pretty good.
PhaedrusXY 05-11-07, 01:41 PM	Monks have three attacks at their full base attack bonus (eventually). So with a few things boosting their attack rolls, power attack can be a good feat for them.
ShinAkuma2 05-11-07, 02:25 PM	You know, at worst, a Monk is at -5 to hit compared to a Fighter. Just Power Attack for a little less, and suddenly you and a Fighter have the exact same attack bonus.
penchant 05-11-07, 03:12 PM	However monks always have the problem of the ability point spread. To be an effective monk you have to spread between STR, DEX, and WIS. CON is necessary to make up for being a melee fighter with a D8 Hit dice. A fighter only need CON and STR (or DEX but not both). So his combat bonuses are going to be better than a monk's too.
Peregrine_Wolf 05-11-07, 04:12 PM	Since unarmed attacks are light weapons, do they work with Weapon Finesse? If so, just go with Dex, Wis, and Con if you really want to...the Str isn't really much needed because, eventually you can make up for that with the damage dice. This way, Weapon Finesse provides you with better attack bonus, jsut Power Attack as much as you feel like and your doing jsut as well as a Fighter on that...almost =)
PhaedrusXY 05-11-07, 04:26 PM	However monks always have the problem of the ability point spread. To be an effective monk you have to spread between STR, DEX, and WIS. You can kind of dump Dex, Str, or Wis. If you don't take Stunning Fist, Dex and Wis both mainly just add onto saves and AC. So you can live without them being sky high. Since unarmed attacks are light weapons, do they work with Weapon Finesse? Yes, they do. They are one of the few things that you can use both Power Attack and Weapon Finesse on.If so, just go with Dex, Wis, and Con if you really want to...the Str isn't really much needed because, eventually you can make up for that with the damage dice. This way, Weapon Finesse provides you with better attack bonus, jsut Power Attack as much as you feel like and your doing jsut as well as a Fighter on that...almost =)Exactly. Using this approach, you just need to get your Str to 13-14 using magic bonuses. I prefer to make Str based monks, myself, and not focus on Wis and Dex as much as alot of people do.
penchant 05-11-07, 05:06 PM	A monk never gets the damage bonus that a two handed fighter can. If he flurries he is at penalties to hit until mid levels. The best he can do is becoming a charger with flying kick and leap attack, but that pales in comparison with the greatsword charger or a mounted lancer. Sure a Monk's unarmed damage finally maxes out at 2d10 but that not much better than the monkey gripped large greatsword. I'm not saying that a monk can't power attack or even get respectable damage. I'm just saying that others can do it better and monks are better suited to doing other things. They are built for stunning blow builds and status effects.
ShinAkuma2 05-12-07, 02:24 AM	So his combat bonuses are going to be better than a monk's too. Assuming you get to pick your character's stats. On a point-buy? Sure. Rolling randomly? Maybe not.
penchant 05-12-07, 10:28 AM	most DM's who roll stats still allow people to arrange as you like. There are some hard core ones that go total random. Even then when you do roll stats, a fighter has two important stats while monk has four (or three if you make sacrifices). Statistically speaking the fighter is still geared more toward combat. As it should be. Who says that using bare hands in combat has to be equally effective as using advanced weaponry? There is a reason that humans are tool users!
InkBlot 05-12-07, 01:21 PM	Power Attack could be worth it if you're using a quaterstaff (or other one- or two-handed monk weapon) in two hands. The enhancement bonus to attack rolls means your attack bonus is going to be higher than an unarmed monk's, and you'll get 2x bonus damage. Then you can Power Attack for those enemies who are easy to hit, but hit back hard or have tons of HP. However, for an unarmed monk Power Attack is generaly not worth taking. The way the monk class is designed, it just isn't a primary damage-dealer. The best you can do is take one of those feats that works off of stunning fist, but incapacitates your foe for more than 1 round. Your enemy's penalty to AC could offset your penalty from Power Attack.