Powerful Build and Monkey Grip [Archive] - Wizards Community

Powerful Build and Monkey Grip [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Spikes01k
02-20-08, 06:33 PM STOP.
I know they don't mix, but I just need the reference the source. Can you please tell me where it is stated please.
jaelis
02-20-08, 06:45 PM It follows directly from the text of the abilties.
Spikes01k
02-20-08, 06:47 PM It follows directly from the text of the abilties.

Please go into detail about these rules.
jaelis
02-20-08, 06:51 PM From the Skills and Feats FAQ stickied above,

Can I combine Monkey Grip and Powerful Build?
Do they stack?

No.

Powerful build says that it treats the character as being one size category larger in many ways.

And then it lists them:

- he is treated as one size larger, if doing so is advantageous to him, when he is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check.

- he is considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size can affect him.

Now, he is not treated as one size larger for the purpose of wielding weapons. Rather, he can wield weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty.

Monkey Grip(MG) would give him the same advantage, but with a -2 penalty.

Monkey Grip(MG) allows you to use a weapon of larger size than yours without changing the effort you need to wield it, but with a -2 penalty to attack rolls.

The Half-Giant and the Goliath, being Medium creatures, would be allowed to use weapons designed for Large creatures with a -2 penalty, penalty that they can avoid simply using their Powerful Build ability.
Legdiwena
02-20-08, 06:51 PM Where can I find details for Powerful Build? I already have CW to see details of Monkey Grip.
jaelis
02-20-08, 06:53 PM From the srd

Powerful Build: The physical stature of half-giants lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger.

Whenever a half-giant is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the half-giant is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him.

A half-giant is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A half-giant can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.
Orenmir
02-20-08, 06:53 PM Where can I find details for Powerful Build? I already have CW to see details of Monkey Grip.

The details for PB are included in the race description for races that posses it. Such as Half Giant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicRaces.htm#halfGiants).

Oooooooo, ninja'd.
mplindustries
02-20-08, 06:55 PM Both reference your actual size, not your "effective size." So both separately give you the same benefit, i.e. being able to wield a weapon one size larger than your natural size.
BrianMc223
02-20-08, 06:57 PM EDIT: Dial-up, making even slow ninjas look like Bruce Lee on meth since it was invented by the devil himself.
Orenmir
02-20-08, 06:59 PM BTW, Power Attack is almost always a better choice than Monkey Grip.
Spikes01k
02-20-08, 08:55 PM BTW, Power Attack is almost always a better choice than Monkey Grip.

Yes, I agree entirely.
narack
02-21-08, 07:50 AM People should search in the forum, there is one post like this every week or so about this.
Orenmir
02-21-08, 09:53 AM People should search in the forum, there is one post like this every week or so about this.

I'd cut the OP some slack. He simply had a direct and precise question about documentation of the 2 rules interacting. Even with the search feature, he'd be bent to find exactly what he was looking for in the myriad of "Does BP & MG Stack?" threads.
Spikes01k
02-21-08, 10:01 AM I'd cut the OP some slack. He simply had a direct and precise question about documentation of the 2 rules interacting. Even with the search feature, he'd be bent to find exactly what he was looking for in the myriad of "Does BP & MG Stack?" threads.

The difference here from other threads is that I was looking for the referance of the specific rule, like the FAQ, which was exactly what I needed.
pigknight
02-21-08, 08:40 PM BTW, Power Attack is almost always a better choice than Monkey Grip.

Power Attack+Monkey Grip+True Strike-20 attack bonus=funny.
mplindustries
02-22-08, 04:45 AM Power Attack+Monkey Grip+True Strike-20 attack bonus=funny.

Actually, it =impossible unless you already have a +20 BAB, which is rather difficult while being able to cast True Strike. Its not on the Duskblade list (is it?), so I'm not sure that its even doable.
Legdiwena
02-22-08, 12:43 PM Gestalt or epic
TifRhal
02-22-08, 01:27 PM Powerful build: the physical stature of the goliath lets him function as if he were one size category larger. A goliath can use weapons desinged for a creatur one size larger without penalty however, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size.

so to my understanding his starting size is large for his weapon so monkey grip should work with no problem just the -2 to hit since the feat negates the added effert .
pigknight
02-22-08, 01:38 PM Actually, it =impossible unless you already have a +20 BAB, which is rather difficult while being able to cast True Strike. Its not on the Duskblade list (is it?), so I'm not sure that its even doable.

Isn't True Strike a touch spell?
mvincent
02-22-08, 02:19 PM STOP.
I know they don't mix, but I just need the reference the source. Can you please tell me where it is stated please.Custserv (here (http://wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=992)):
"Since both abilities look back at your actual size, Monkey Grip and Powerful Build are redundant and do not stack. They both give you the ability to wield a weapon one size category larger than yourself, but neither actually increases your size."

From the Skills and Feats FAQ stickied above,It's an excellent resource, but it's technically not an 'official' WotC published one (i.e. the answers were provided by other posters of this board... which are often more 'right', but less 'official' than custserv).
mplindustries
02-22-08, 03:12 PM Isn't True Strike a touch spell?

No (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/trueStrike.htm)

I don't see the relevance of it being a touch spell.

I was mistaken though, as it is on the Duskblade list. So, thats about the only way this would work. And as mentioned, you can only power attack your BAB away, not other bonuses, so you'd have to be level 20.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Spikes01k 02-20-08, 06:33 PM	STOP. I know they don't mix, but I just need the reference the source. Can you please tell me where it is stated please.
jaelis 02-20-08, 06:45 PM	It follows directly from the text of the abilties.
Spikes01k 02-20-08, 06:47 PM	It follows directly from the text of the abilties. Please go into detail about these rules.
jaelis 02-20-08, 06:51 PM	From the Skills and Feats FAQ stickied above, Can I combine Monkey Grip and Powerful Build? Do they stack? No. Powerful build says that it treats the character as being one size category larger in many ways. And then it lists them: - he is treated as one size larger, if doing so is advantageous to him, when he is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check. - he is considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size can affect him. Now, he is not treated as one size larger for the purpose of wielding weapons. Rather, he can wield weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. Monkey Grip(MG) would give him the same advantage, but with a -2 penalty. Monkey Grip(MG) allows you to use a weapon of larger size than yours without changing the effort you need to wield it, but with a -2 penalty to attack rolls. The Half-Giant and the Goliath, being Medium creatures, would be allowed to use weapons designed for Large creatures with a -2 penalty, penalty that they can avoid simply using their Powerful Build ability.
Legdiwena 02-20-08, 06:51 PM	Where can I find details for Powerful Build? I already have CW to see details of Monkey Grip.
jaelis 02-20-08, 06:53 PM	From the srd Powerful Build: The physical stature of half-giants lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever a half-giant is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the half-giant is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A half-giant is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A half-giant can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.
Orenmir 02-20-08, 06:53 PM	Where can I find details for Powerful Build? I already have CW to see details of Monkey Grip. The details for PB are included in the race description for races that posses it. Such as Half Giant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicRaces.htm#halfGiants). Oooooooo, ninja'd.
mplindustries 02-20-08, 06:55 PM	Both reference your actual size, not your "effective size." So both separately give you the same benefit, i.e. being able to wield a weapon one size larger than your natural size.
BrianMc223 02-20-08, 06:57 PM	EDIT: Dial-up, making even slow ninjas look like Bruce Lee on meth since it was invented by the devil himself.
Orenmir 02-20-08, 06:59 PM	BTW, Power Attack is almost always a better choice than Monkey Grip.
Spikes01k 02-20-08, 08:55 PM	BTW, Power Attack is almost always a better choice than Monkey Grip. Yes, I agree entirely.
narack 02-21-08, 07:50 AM	People should search in the forum, there is one post like this every week or so about this.
Orenmir 02-21-08, 09:53 AM	People should search in the forum, there is one post like this every week or so about this. I'd cut the OP some slack. He simply had a direct and precise question about documentation of the 2 rules interacting. Even with the search feature, he'd be bent to find exactly what he was looking for in the myriad of "Does BP & MG Stack?" threads.
Spikes01k 02-21-08, 10:01 AM	I'd cut the OP some slack. He simply had a direct and precise question about documentation of the 2 rules interacting. Even with the search feature, he'd be bent to find exactly what he was looking for in the myriad of "Does BP & MG Stack?" threads. The difference here from other threads is that I was looking for the referance of the specific rule, like the FAQ, which was exactly what I needed.
pigknight 02-21-08, 08:40 PM	BTW, Power Attack is almost always a better choice than Monkey Grip. Power Attack+Monkey Grip+True Strike-20 attack bonus=funny.
mplindustries 02-22-08, 04:45 AM	Power Attack+Monkey Grip+True Strike-20 attack bonus=funny. Actually, it =impossible unless you already have a +20 BAB, which is rather difficult while being able to cast True Strike. Its not on the Duskblade list (is it?), so I'm not sure that its even doable.
Legdiwena 02-22-08, 12:43 PM	Gestalt or epic
TifRhal 02-22-08, 01:27 PM	Powerful build: the physical stature of the goliath lets him function as if he were one size category larger. A goliath can use weapons desinged for a creatur one size larger without penalty however, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. so to my understanding his starting size is large for his weapon so monkey grip should work with no problem just the -2 to hit since the feat negates the added effert .
pigknight 02-22-08, 01:38 PM	Actually, it =impossible unless you already have a +20 BAB, which is rather difficult while being able to cast True Strike. Its not on the Duskblade list (is it?), so I'm not sure that its even doable. Isn't True Strike a touch spell?
mvincent 02-22-08, 02:19 PM	STOP. I know they don't mix, but I just need the reference the source. Can you please tell me where it is stated please.Custserv (here (http://wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=992)): "Since both abilities look back at your actual size, Monkey Grip and Powerful Build are redundant and do not stack. They both give you the ability to wield a weapon one size category larger than yourself, but neither actually increases your size." From the Skills and Feats FAQ stickied above,It's an excellent resource, but it's technically not an 'official' WotC published one (i.e. the answers were provided by other posters of this board... which are often more 'right', but less 'official' than custserv).
mplindustries 02-22-08, 03:12 PM	Isn't True Strike a touch spell? No (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/trueStrike.htm) I don't see the relevance of it being a touch spell. I was mistaken though, as it is on the Duskblade list. So, thats about the only way this would work. And as mentioned, you can only power attack your BAB away, not other bonuses, so you'd have to be level 20.