Powerful build vs. Large size [Archive] - Wizards Community

Powerful build vs. Large size [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
RaivokasMagma
10-04-07, 12:57 PM Which one is better?
RobbyPants
10-04-07, 01:56 PM Depends on what you're after. In general, large size is better. The biggest reason being the increased reach. The benifits you get from a large reach are much better than the -1 penalty to hit and AC. Also, many large creatures have an increased movement.

Sometimes you want to have your cake and eat it too by having the best of each size. That's where powerful build comes in. All in all, the reach is what most people are after when they want to be large, though.
j3st3r
10-04-07, 04:57 PM Also, large size grants +4 bonus to grapple checks and -4 penalty to hide checks.
Shadowfax7
10-04-07, 06:10 PM Also, large size grants +4 bonus to grapple checks
Powerful Build grants this as well.
larry_the_titan
10-04-07, 06:41 PM Powerful build is like having all the bonuses of being Large except reach. It also has none of the draw backs such as penalty to hiding and hitting and your AC. I prefer Powerful Build which comes with a lower Level adjustment compared to large creature.

Goliaths = LA +1 Powerful Build Races of Stone
Half-Giants = LA +1 Powerful Build Expanded Psionics Handbook
Half-Ogre = LA +2 Large Races of Destiny
Matthew77
10-04-07, 07:50 PM Another drawback of Large Size - being 9 feet tall and 5 feet wide when you need to go through a 3' wide secret tunnel in the dungeon.
1 ton ghost
10-05-07, 12:30 PM large; worse AC, more cramped/confined spaces, easier to sneak attack, harsher social reactions usually, very hard to "find" magical items to your size, most specific weapons/armor must be customized (eats up alot of time) assuming craftsman will even do it, eat more food and easier to poison thusly, Hide is penalized...bull in a china shop.

but, for typical combat's sake, yeah, it's great. just don't do much tunnel fighting, urban encounters, etc. hampers your fellow PCs horribly if you occupy the entire hall and there are precious few legal spaces.
runestar
10-05-07, 10:16 PM very hard to "find" magical items to your size

Only for armour and weapons, the rest will automatically resize to fit their wearer, whatever their size.

Large will also improve your unarmed or natural strike damage, unlike powerful build, so that might be another thing to look out for, say if you want to play a monk or something.
Archangel_Tyrael
10-05-07, 10:39 PM bull in a china shop.

I'm WAAAAYY off topic here, but Mythbusters took it upon themselves to run this experiment. Youtube Linky! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfCuwO6sdws) You may have already seen it, I just wanna share it with everyone else. I found it interesting.

Also, there are very few Large Humanoids, and only Humanoids can be affected by Enlarge Person.
Darth Sephiroth
10-06-07, 07:44 AM Large is better for a few things (Especially if you're trying to go for the largest weapon effect), however Powerful Build lets you do a few other things.
1 ton ghost
10-06-07, 01:35 PM most of you are only considering combat. truly a large chunk of the gaming experience, but not its entirety.

large draws way more attacks/dmg for sure. most dumb and intelligent creatures equate size w/ tactical prowess and damage potential. this is stupid. oftentimes, that sickly weak old man in the back does the most dmg/rnd w/ a wave of his finger (magi). but i digress.
AC is down a little, manageable, but noted. it's the armor that's problematic. unless you have an incredibly far-fetched (bull$hit) campaign, acquiring good large sized armor is very very difficult. maybe some chincy crap from an ogre here and there, but it's rare. maybe a really good Gather Info to find out, but otherwise, almost all smithies could never make it. the Craft DC would be rather high, and it would probably be their 1st at bat for experimental armor. don't argue "it's just larger than medium so it's simpler" cuz' it's not, trust me. so many variable to consider than just "extra material" and mass.

and this takes alot of time... a Hell of alot of time and PCs don't normally like to linger on account of 1 PC, especially the tank.
most will give casters leverage for scribing, item creation, whatever, but adventurers live foolishly, like criminals really:

risk, big pay off assuming you're alive, shopping extravaganza and live high on the hog, blow it all, go out adventuring, repeat

i guess it's cool for some ppl, particularly outdoor action w/ lots of room to swing big weapons, but indoors and all...
i'm of the opinion that the spell to enlarge is probably more practical in the longrun than actually being Large. IMO though.
Goliath is alright and everyone wants Powerful Build now but everything has a weak spot if you look hard enough.
Garonak
10-06-07, 06:24 PM The best one is of course a mixture of both, like a Goliath Barbarian. With the racial subst. lvls from Races of Stone they become large when they rage. Totaling in +6 str, -2dex, +4con, -1atk, -4ac (dex, size and normal rage penalty) and reach.
Dragom
10-06-07, 07:50 PM Large Size includes Reach and and filling a lot room in a small dungeon.

This makes something like Powerful Build infinitely less annoying for the DM and other players.

For reasonably balanced games allways go for Powerful Build.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RaivokasMagma 10-04-07, 12:57 PM	Which one is better?
RobbyPants 10-04-07, 01:56 PM	Depends on what you're after. In general, large size is better. The biggest reason being the increased reach. The benifits you get from a large reach are much better than the -1 penalty to hit and AC. Also, many large creatures have an increased movement. Sometimes you want to have your cake and eat it too by having the best of each size. That's where powerful build comes in. All in all, the reach is what most people are after when they want to be large, though.
j3st3r 10-04-07, 04:57 PM	Also, large size grants +4 bonus to grapple checks and -4 penalty to hide checks.
Shadowfax7 10-04-07, 06:10 PM	Also, large size grants +4 bonus to grapple checks Powerful Build grants this as well.
larry_the_titan 10-04-07, 06:41 PM	Powerful build is like having all the bonuses of being Large except reach. It also has none of the draw backs such as penalty to hiding and hitting and your AC. I prefer Powerful Build which comes with a lower Level adjustment compared to large creature. Goliaths = LA +1 Powerful Build Races of Stone Half-Giants = LA +1 Powerful Build Expanded Psionics Handbook Half-Ogre = LA +2 Large Races of Destiny
Matthew77 10-04-07, 07:50 PM	Another drawback of Large Size - being 9 feet tall and 5 feet wide when you need to go through a 3' wide secret tunnel in the dungeon.
1 ton ghost 10-05-07, 12:30 PM	large; worse AC, more cramped/confined spaces, easier to sneak attack, harsher social reactions usually, very hard to "find" magical items to your size, most specific weapons/armor must be customized (eats up alot of time) assuming craftsman will even do it, eat more food and easier to poison thusly, Hide is penalized...bull in a china shop. but, for typical combat's sake, yeah, it's great. just don't do much tunnel fighting, urban encounters, etc. hampers your fellow PCs horribly if you occupy the entire hall and there are precious few legal spaces.
runestar 10-05-07, 10:16 PM	very hard to "find" magical items to your size Only for armour and weapons, the rest will automatically resize to fit their wearer, whatever their size. Large will also improve your unarmed or natural strike damage, unlike powerful build, so that might be another thing to look out for, say if you want to play a monk or something.
Archangel_Tyrael 10-05-07, 10:39 PM	bull in a china shop. I'm WAAAAYY off topic here, but Mythbusters took it upon themselves to run this experiment. Youtube Linky! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfCuwO6sdws) You may have already seen it, I just wanna share it with everyone else. I found it interesting. Also, there are very few Large Humanoids, and only Humanoids can be affected by Enlarge Person.
Darth Sephiroth 10-06-07, 07:44 AM	Large is better for a few things (Especially if you're trying to go for the largest weapon effect), however Powerful Build lets you do a few other things.
1 ton ghost 10-06-07, 01:35 PM	most of you are only considering combat. truly a large chunk of the gaming experience, but not its entirety. large draws way more attacks/dmg for sure. most dumb and intelligent creatures equate size w/ tactical prowess and damage potential. this is stupid. oftentimes, that sickly weak old man in the back does the most dmg/rnd w/ a wave of his finger (magi). but i digress. AC is down a little, manageable, but noted. it's the armor that's problematic. unless you have an incredibly far-fetched (bull$hit) campaign, acquiring good large sized armor is very very difficult. maybe some chincy crap from an ogre here and there, but it's rare. maybe a really good Gather Info to find out, but otherwise, almost all smithies could never make it. the Craft DC would be rather high, and it would probably be their 1st at bat for experimental armor. don't argue "it's just larger than medium so it's simpler" cuz' it's not, trust me. so many variable to consider than just "extra material" and mass. and this takes alot of time... a Hell of alot of time and PCs don't normally like to linger on account of 1 PC, especially the tank. most will give casters leverage for scribing, item creation, whatever, but adventurers live foolishly, like criminals really: risk, big pay off assuming you're alive, shopping extravaganza and live high on the hog, blow it all, go out adventuring, repeat i guess it's cool for some ppl, particularly outdoor action w/ lots of room to swing big weapons, but indoors and all... i'm of the opinion that the spell to enlarge is probably more practical in the longrun than actually being Large. IMO though. Goliath is alright and everyone wants Powerful Build now but everything has a weak spot if you look hard enough.
Garonak 10-06-07, 06:24 PM	The best one is of course a mixture of both, like a Goliath Barbarian. With the racial subst. lvls from Races of Stone they become large when they rage. Totaling in +6 str, -2dex, +4con, -1atk, -4ac (dex, size and normal rage penalty) and reach.
Dragom 10-06-07, 07:50 PM	Large Size includes Reach and and filling a lot room in a small dungeon. This makes something like Powerful Build infinitely less annoying for the DM and other players. For reasonably balanced games allways go for Powerful Build.