Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Richtenfaust 06-30-07, 03:23 PM	While it doesn't state these classes specifically, the wording on the feat suggests that this feat could make up the difference between a Ranger or Paladin's actual level and their caster level, at least by 4. Can anyone direct me to an official ruling on this matter? It's driving me insane trying to find something.
Lotus Crane 06-30-07, 03:38 PM	Can anyone direct me to an official ruling on this matter? You won't find an official ruling regarding your specific question, because there's no need for one. Practiced Spellcaster raises your caster level by 4, to a maximum of your character level. Yes, 20th level paladins and rangers can have a caster level of 14 instead of 10, because 14 is still less than 21. WotC can't babysit you through every single class, feat, and spell - sometimes you need to just open your eyes, think for yourself, and live with the results.
Richtenfaust 06-30-07, 03:53 PM	Yeah, tell that to all the morons that argue with me about this feat. Believe me, I'm not the one who needs the official ruling...it's the idiots on the DDO forums that don't know how to read. I can tell by the way you responded you have dealt with these sorts of people before...so you should know as well as I do that some people require things to be spelled out in no uncertain terms. I found a good term for this the other day: profound mental retardation. Anyway, just letting you know I'm not the idiot in question and I appreciate someone else out there thinking like me on this matter.
VonRichthofen 07-06-07, 02:24 AM	Take Complete Divine, show them the feat entry - done. Nothing top argue about. Absolutely nothing. Having at hand the books in question helps inmeasurably with useless arguments like this one.
tarkin 07-06-07, 11:14 AM	1. There is nothing in the feat that at all implies this was not what it was intended to do. 2. There is no abuse potential here. Keep in mind that Practixed spellcaster does NOT affect the number of spells you can learn or cast, just what caster level you count as when casting. 3. While helpfull, there are many other feats that are much better for Paladins or Rangers. Your lack of number of spells castable per day pretty thoroughly limits the usefullness of this spell.
Ace_of_time 07-06-07, 08:59 PM	Yeah, tell that to all the morons that argue with me about this feat. Believe me, I'm not the one who needs the official ruling...it's the idiots on the DDO forums that don't know how to read. I can tell by the way you responded you have dealt with these sorts of people before...so you should know as well as I do that some people require things to be spelled out in no uncertain terms. I found a good term for this the other day: profound mental retardation. Anyway, just letting you know I'm not the idiot in question and I appreciate someone else out there thinking like me on this matter.Some people on here get feed up with some things they deal with allot. That still doesn't allow them to be mean. If it was that cut and dry for him he could have just said yes or no and been done with it. There is never an reason to take something out on someone who hasn't done anything but ask for help. Some people just don't know. The feat does give you a plus 4 to caster level but doesn't really do anything until you can cast spell so for these types of classes should wait till atleast 3rd feat to take it.
Lucas Blackstone 07-07-07, 12:50 PM	The only "abuse" I can think of with it is in conjunction with the Wild Mage PrC. In a nutshell ( and explaining only the part that pertains to this) what the class does is change your caster level from the fixed normal of your level and instead it uses the formula of (Level-3)+1d6. So if you were a 7 sor/3 wildmage , your caster level would fluctuate from 8 to 13, instead of be 10 all the time. With Practiced Spellcaster, you get +4 to your caster level, but the added bonus can't raise your caster level about your character level. This changes your caster level from 10 to 13 all the time. There could be some official errata or something that changes this, but that was the way it worked last I knew.
ShinAkuma2 07-07-07, 01:40 PM	There could be some official errata or something that changes this, but that was the way it worked last I knew. There's no errata. In fact, according to the FAQ, that's exactly how this works.
Karanth 07-07-07, 04:18 PM	The only "abuse" I can think of with it is in conjunction with the Wild Mage PrC. In a nutshell ( and explaining only the part that pertains to this) what the class does is change your caster level from the fixed normal of your level and instead it uses the formula of (Level-3)+1d6. So if you were a 7 sor/3 wildmage , your caster level would fluctuate from 8 to 13, instead of be 10 all the time. With Practiced Spellcaster, you get +4 to your caster level, but the added bonus can't raise your caster level about your character level. This changes your caster level from 10 to 13 all the time. There could be some official errata or something that changes this, but that was the way it worked last I knew. Errata doesn't matter. The bonus to caster level can't make your caster level exceed your character level. So, at best, it lets you dip for something else, and not lose any caster levels. Considering that it takes a feat, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Wild Mages do many other things that are scary, like playing with random effect items.
Ace_of_time 07-07-07, 09:35 PM	While I have never made a wild mage but if it is in the faq then that's how wizards want it to work and there is not much we can do about that. Note that it would depend on which class you got PS for. The sor or the wild mage. It doesn't work for both? Don't you have to get it for both?
Lucas Blackstone 07-08-07, 03:35 AM	The FAQ isn't actual rules though. It's just questions that are answered ( and sometimes incorrectly according to the rules.) They aren't errata either. With the inaccuracy that the FAQ provides sometimes, I usually don't go by it. The reason I called it "abuse" isn't because it lets your caster level go above your level, which my example didn't allow it to do. I said it was abuse because it removes the possibility of your caster level being lower then it was intended to be. After rereading the Wild magic class ability and Practice Spellcaster, it seems a bit more abusive then I had realized. Wild magic is 1d6 added to your adjusted caster level ( which would normally be your normal caster level -3.) So then you would adjust it again ( +4 from practiced spell caster) so that your adjusted caster level would be up to full power, and then add 1d6. Is there a reason it wouldn't read like that?
Merestil Haye 07-08-07, 08:09 AM	While I have never made a wild mage but if it is in the faq then that's how wizards want it to work and there is not much we can do about that. Note that it would depend on which class you got PS for. The sor or the wild mage. It doesn't work for both? Don't you have to get it for both?Reread Wild Mage. It does not give you a separate spellcating capability, but adds to a previous arcane casting class. You need to take Practiced Spellcaster only once. (Assuming you have only one class giving you spellcasting capability that is.) The FAQ isn't actual rules though. It's just questions that are answered ( and sometimes incorrectly according to the rules.) They aren't errata either. With the inaccuracy that the FAQ provides sometimes, I usually don't go by it. The reason I called it "abuse" isn't because it lets your caster level go above your level, which my example didn't allow it to do. I said it was abuse because it removes the possibility of your caster level being lower then it was intended to be. After rereading the Wild magic class ability and Practice Spellcaster, it seems a bit more abusive then I had realized. Wild magic is 1d6 added to your adjusted caster level ( which would normally be your normal caster level -3.) So then you would adjust it again ( +4 from practiced spell caster) so that your adjusted caster level would be up to full power, and then add 1d6. Is there a reason it wouldn't read like that?The basic reason is that you can't do it. Wild Mage does not reduce your caster level by three, then separately increase it by 1d6. It gives you one adjustment to your caster level of (1d6-3). You cannot apply Practiced Spellcaster after applying the -3 and before applying the 1d6. (The FAQ actually tells you all this). In the case of a character with nothing but levels in a full casting class and Wild Mage, Practiced Spellcaster is hardly abusive. It does nothing for two-thirds of the spells the character casts, and the rest of the time gives it a +1 or +2 level boost.
Ace_of_time 07-08-07, 10:46 AM	Reread Wild Mage. It does not give you a separate spellcating capability, but adds to a previous arcane casting class. You need to take Practiced Spellcaster only once. (Assuming you have only one class giving you spellcasting capability that is.) The basic reason is that you can't do it. Wild Mage does not reduce your caster level by three, then separately increase it by 1d6. It gives you one adjustment to your caster level of (1d6-3). You cannot apply Practiced Spellcaster after applying the -3 and before applying the 1d6. (The FAQ actually tells you all this). In the case of a character with nothing but levels in a full casting class and Wild Mage, Practiced Spellcaster is hardly abusive. It does nothing for two-thirds of the spells the character casts, and the rest of the time gives it a +1 or +2 level boost. What book is it in I have never read it to begin with? I thought that if you put it on sorc it would add +4 caster level, assuming 4th level wildmage. Then you would -3 and then add 1d6, if I'm reading you post right. looking at it now it would do the same thing except that you would -3 then add the +4.