Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Darth Sephiroth 10-19-07, 06:14 PM	With a Sorcerer taking the feat, does it grant an extra 2nd level known spell or does the spell count against your known Sorcerer spells
vorpo 10-19-07, 06:19 PM	With a Sorcerer taking the feat, does it grant an extra 2nd level known spell or does the spell count against your known Sorcerer spells Personally I'd say it counts against your known spells.
Nightshade 10-19-07, 06:30 PM	The feat does not specify the answer to your question. Thus, it's up to the DM. The feat does specify that it ends up counting as one additional spell per day. The feat's chosen spell could count as your first 2nd level spell known. It is not unreaonable to take this position but the feat does not tell you that this occurs. In my game, I allowed the spell as both one additional Spell per day and an additional Spell Known but I made the feat, Sorcerer only. It's mainly a sorcerer feat anyway but Sorcerers are already somewhat underpowered compared to the Wizard so why not give the feat a small boost.
Stickyfingers 10-19-07, 08:27 PM	The way I read the feat is that you get an extra 2nd level spell slot that you can cast the spell with. And once you get your caster, in this instance your sorcerer, to a level where you actually get 2nd level spells you just gain a bonus 2nd level spell slot forever. The bonus slot never goes away and it doesn't count against the new ones you gain. So RAW it has no effect on spells known. Therefore, it doesn't add to that. So it would count against your sorcerers spells known.
vorpo 10-19-07, 08:48 PM	The way I read the feat is that you get an extra 2nd level spell slot that you can cast the spell with. And once you get your caster, in this instance your sorcerer, to a level where you actually get 2nd level spells you just gain a bonus 2nd level spell slot forever. The bonus slot never goes away and it doesn't count against the new ones you gain. Savvy? .... You are not reading right. The question has always been spells known but you are talking about spells per day.
Darth Sephiroth 10-19-07, 10:04 PM	Yep, it's a case where it could be one more spell a Sorcerer can get ahold of. I'd view it as a good feat with the bonus spell included since the feat is a very limited mix of two feats (Shrinking down the options from Extra Spell and Extra Spell Slot to a single 2nd level spell and slot while restricting it to 1st level only)
vorpo 10-19-07, 11:45 PM	Yep, it's a case where it could be one more spell a Sorcerer can get ahold of. I'd view it as a good feat with the bonus spell included since the feat is a very limited mix of two feats (Shrinking down the options from Extra Spell and Extra Spell Slot to a single 2nd level spell and slot while restricting it to 1st level only) But extra spell/slot is gained much later. You start out at lvl 1 with a 2nd lvl spell. It's not at all restricted. It is definitely on the powerful side of the balance skill, at least for lvl 1's
Darth Sephiroth 10-20-07, 06:57 PM	Perhaps as a Heritage feat then. But as it is, it isn't that much more powerful than a normal feat. True it gives a power booth with an extra spell, spell slot, and occasionally lets you cast it early. However it has several drawbacks, first is that it's a 1st level feat which means you only have one chance (Some races have a slightly higher chance of taking it, but it's still a painful choice with giving up more helpful feats) and it limits it to a specific spell level choice (The other feats give you far more options in when and where you want the spells). For a Sorcerer it would give a great boon in the extra spell, but at the cost of things the Sorcerer could use more readily (Heritage feats for instance which can easily give spells, or multiple spells in some cases)
vorpo 10-20-07, 08:36 PM	Perhaps as a Heritage feat then. But as it is, it isn't that much more powerful than a normal feat. True it gives a power booth with an extra spell, spell slot, and occasionally lets you cast it early. However it has several drawbacks, first is that it's a 1st level feat which means you only have one chance (Some races have a slightly higher chance of taking it, but it's still a painful choice with giving up more helpful feats) and it limits it to a specific spell level choice (The other feats give you far more options in when and where you want the spells). For a Sorcerer it would give a great boon in the extra spell, but at the cost of things the Sorcerer could use more readily (Heritage feats for instance which can easily give spells, or multiple spells in some cases) Of course the feat wouldn't be overpowering or it wouldn't be published. Your arguments comes from a long term perspective. But if you are playing a campaign from lvl 1 to lvl 3, giving the PA feat even more benefit is unbalancing.
CryoSilver 10-20-07, 08:43 PM	This is also a feat of choice for Mystic Theurges.
Darth Sephiroth 10-23-07, 02:26 AM	This is also a feat of choice for Mystic Theurges. Nope, the granted spell and slot has already been made to not work as a prerequisite.