Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Guyver027 04-05-07, 02:48 PM	If your character bare(w/out equipment or enhancements of anytype) does not meet prerequist for a feet... can he take that feet by using a magic item(or such) to fit that requirement... Example: Feat requires dex of 15. Charcater has score of 13(bare) but with gloves of dex +2... he now has a score of 15... Can he now select this feet and use it as long as his score is 15 or above? Also, If a prerequisit is something like spring attack, where you need dodge and mobility. If your character has dodge, but is granted mobility from a magic item or armor... can he then elect to take and use spring attack?
Jarii246 04-05-07, 03:11 PM	As far as I remember in the rules, yes. But if the character takes off that item and drops the stat to below the pre-reqs of the feat, they lose the benefits of that feat. If I am wrong somebody please correct me!
Aracor 04-05-07, 03:12 PM	If your character bare(w/out equipment or enhancements of anytype) does not meet prerequist for a feet... can he take that feet by using a magic item(or such) to fit that requirement... Example: Feat requires dex of 15. Charcater has score of 13(bare) but with gloves of dex +2... he now has a score of 15... Can he now select this feet and use it as long as his score is 15 or above? Also, If a prerequisit is something like spring attack, where you need dodge and mobility. If your character has dodge, but is granted mobility from a magic item or armor... can he then elect to take and use spring attack?Yes, but if he ever loses the magic items that are allowing him to take a feat further up the tree, he'll lose access to those feats as well.
Nephlite 04-05-07, 03:24 PM	Yes, but if he ever loses the magic items that are allowing him to take a feat further up the tree, he'll lose access to those feats as well. Only if those require the Stat requirement and the feat requirement. Example: TWF feats requires 13 Dex. But Dual Strike does not even though TWFing feats are prequisites. Which is good because they don't stack (dual strike hasd own mechanics) If dex drops to 12, you still have the feat, but can't use them. But you could still use Dual strike. However, Power attack requires 13 str. Cleave requires 13 str and pa. So strength drops to 12, you lose both feats. Leap attack has two benefits: charge while jump (so no obstacles can prevent the charge) and deal more damage with PA. Str drops to 12, you can't use the second benefit (as PA is unuseable), but yu can still use first benefit as there is no strength requirement for Jump Attack.
ShinAkuma2 04-05-07, 03:40 PM	Leap attack has two benefits: charge while jump (so no obstacles can prevent the charge) and deal more damage with PA. Str drops to 12, you can't use the second benefit (as PA is unuseable), but yu can still use first benefit as there is no strength requirement for Jump Attack. You can always Jump during a charge...Leap Attack provides no additional benefit than the PA enhancement.
Yadot 04-05-07, 03:43 PM	Only if those require the Stat requirement and the feat requirement. Example: TWF feats requires 13 Dex. But Dual Strike does not even though TWFing feats are prequisites. Which is good because they don't stack (dual strike hasd own mechanics) If dex drops to 12, you still have the feat, but can't use them. But you could still use Dual strike. But if you lose access to TWF wouldn't that mean you no longer qualify for Dual Strike?
tarkin 04-05-07, 04:41 PM	Correct. When you lose TWF, you lose Dual Strike. The reason why Dual Strike does not have a Dex 13 requirement is to allow Rangers to take the feat. A Ranger with TWF, ITWF and Dual Strike keeps all feats regardless of how low his Dex goes.
ShinAkuma2 04-05-07, 09:53 PM	Correct. When you lose TWF, you lose Dual Strike. Incorrect. When you go below 13 Dex, you lose the ability to use the TWF feat. You do not lose the feat itself. Dual Strike only requires that you have the feat, not that you be able to use it. The FAQ clearly states this, noting that being unable to use a feat is not the same as not having it anymore.
runestar 04-05-07, 10:10 PM	When you go below 13 Dex, you lose the ability to use the TWF feat. You do not lose the feat itself. Dual Strike only requires that you have the feat, not that you be able to use it. Truth, for the same reason that hitting a blackguard with a ray of enfeeblement will not cause him to suddenly lose all his prc features.:P
Inigo Carmine 04-05-07, 11:26 PM	Incorrect. When you go below 13 Dex, you lose the ability to use the TWF feat. You do not lose the feat itself. Dual Strike only requires that you have the feat, not that you be able to use it. The FAQ clearly states this, noting that being unable to use a feat is not the same as not having it anymore. There is a difference between not being able to use a feat, and not meeting the pre-reqs for it. The only relevant FAQ entry I found was saying that you could use Whirlwind in heavy armor, even though you can't use Spring Attack (a pre-req of Whirlwind) in heavy armor. This is a different case, as "not being in heavy armor" is not a pre-req of spring attack, but a condition of its use. TWF, however, has a pre-req of 15 dex, not a description saying "When fighting with 15+ dex, your penalties for fighting with two weapons are reduced to..."
tarkin 04-06-07, 11:20 AM	Incorrect. When you go below 13 Dex, you lose the ability to use the TWF feat. You do not lose the feat itself. Dual Strike only requires that you have the feat, not that you be able to use it. The FAQ clearly states this, noting that being unable to use a feat is not the same as not having it anymore. ShinAKuma2, you have NOT read the FAQ, or at least have MISREAD the FAQ If you did, you would know I am correct. There are three different situations, with examples. A. Having the feat but being barred from benefitting from it: Example: You have the feat Spring Attack, but are wearing Heavy Armor. Therefore you can not use the feat. This is the example you read in the FAQ and falsely thought was telling you that as long as you 'have' the feat, you qualify for stuff (FAQ page 35) In this case, when you have the feat, but can not use it, then you can still use other things that have it as a pre-req, such as Whirlwind. B. Losing the actual feat itself. Example: You go down a level, and therefore no longer have the feat. If you go down a level and lose say Power Attack. In this case not only do you not have Power Atttack, but you can NOT use Cleave either. because you do not meet it's pre-reqs. C. Failing to qualify for a feat and losing it's benefit. Example .If your Dex drops to 10, then you have failed to qualify for TWF. In this case, you no longer qualify for TWF, and ALSO can not use TWF. If you read the ENTIRE FAQ, and not just the part you like, you will see an example on page 70 of the FAQ where it clearly states if you lose Dodge, then you also lose the benefit of Mobility (without losing Mobility) and also lose the benefit of Spring Attack. No longer qualifying, is like LOSING a feat, not like being unable to use it. Therefore you can no longer qualify for any feat that has TWF as a pre-req -------------------- P.S. Maneuvers are not like Feats in this manner. On page 44 the Tome of Battle (Book of Nine Swords) clearly states that you can lose maneruvers without losing other maneuvers that had them as pre-reqs.
ShinAkuma2 04-06-07, 01:41 PM	I do love it so when tarkin rants inanely. B. Losing the actual feat itself. Example: You go down a level, and therefore no longer have the feat. If you go down a level and lose say Power Attack. In this case not only do you not have Power Atttack, but you can NOT use Cleave either. because you do not meet it's pre-reqs. No one is disputing that losing the feat entirely costs you the ability to use higher feats on the chain. Note that your example is impossible, since there's no way to lose Power Attack as a feat and yet still have Cleave. If there was, say, an item that gave you Power Attack, then you took Cleave, and then lost the item, you would lose the ability to Cleave because you no longer qualify. Again, this is not being disputed. If you read the ENTIRE FAQ, and not just the part you like, you will see an example on page 70 of the FAQ where it clearly states if you lose Dodge, then you also lose the benefit of Mobility (without losing Mobility) and also lose the benefit of Spring Attack. And if YOU'D read the FAQ in it's entirety, you'd realize that page 70 is referencing LOSING A FEAT ENTIRELY, and not just being unqualified for it. If a human loses his Dodge bonus feat when Polymorphed, he cannot use Mobility or Spring Attack. This is not because he doesn't qualify for Dodge. It's because he doesn't have Dodge. Note that a prereq for Spring Attack is that you HAVE Dodge. If you no longer have Dodge, you cannot Spring Attack, though you still have the Spring Attack feat. That feat slot doesn't just magically disappear, it simply becomes inactive until you can satisfy those prereqs again (or until you retrain them). No longer qualifying, is like LOSING a feat, not like being unable to use it. Therefore you can no longer qualify for any feat that has TWF as a pre-req And yet you have not a single shred of evidence to point towards this, with everything pointing towards the opposite conclusion. You are the most entertaining joke account I have seen yet. I'll post it straight out for everyone to see: Just because you’re barred from benefiting from a feat doesn’t mean that you don’t have it any more. & A character can’t use a feat if he or she has lost a prerequisite. Losing a prerequisite means you can't use a feat. However, being unable to use a feat is not the same as losing it entirely. Nothing you have posted has taken even a step towards disproving this.
DarkRhystar 04-06-07, 02:22 PM	For what it's worth: If you no longer meet the prerequisites for feat A, not only do you lose the use of feat A but all feats which require A. RAW or house-rule, I don't care much either way but that's how I run it. I do love it so when tarkin rants inanely. <snip> You are the most entertaining joke account I have seen yet. Tsk tsk. :rolleyes:
ShinAkuma2 04-06-07, 03:29 PM	Tsk tsk. :rolleyes: Yes, I know, but he replied with a combative tone of voice, so it only seemed appropriate.
ZiggZagg 04-06-07, 03:57 PM	You are the most entertaining joke account I have seen yet. :bounce: :bow: :clap: :w00t: :heehee