Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dragynson1 04-12-07, 12:42 AM	I have been looking at creating a death attacker. A death attack is just a special sneak attack and must qualify for sneak attack in all ways Basically it comes down to your best freind is also your worst enemy. IN many cases the rogue skills and class features are nullified so easily it is pathetic and many times they counter each other. ANY concealment whatsoever means NO sneak attack. the +1 armor property that grants 10% concealment completely destroys sneak attack. as does blur ,displacement, darkness, mist, fog, fortification. the cheap cloak of displacement and about 10 other items all mean no sneak attack. A rogue in shadowy illumination can hide fine, but cant get a mellee sneak attack. and can only sneak attack into the bright light. unless you have darkvision, and your opponent doesnt. Darkvision keeps you from hiding in shadows and sneak attacking. A rogue with cover can hide, but cant move to attack very well. Any class with uncanny dodge prevents being flatfooted to attackers. That by itself removes surprise attacks, hiding and invisibility. blindfight removes invis and hiding improved uncanny dodge removes flanking to sneak attack. a couple magic items and about 50 classes grant this. Any creature with blindsight The only way i can see to get a 1/2 way reliable sneak attack is at range Death attack specifies MELLEE WEAPON. Which means you have to be undetected while approching which means invis most likely and even then most likely need a flanker, and pray they arent a barbarian rogue or some class with improved uncanny dodge. Or hope they wonder by some cover your hiding behind in the 3 rounds you have it prepped. blindsense, and tremor sense prevent death attacks but not sneak attacks Am i reading this wrong or is death attack gimp against 99% of the game. The only thing i can see to get around even some of that without countering yourself is blur or invis. blur is better though. and truestrike is needed to cancel others concealment. Sorry if I am ranting, im a little frustrated.
dragynson1 04-12-07, 01:06 AM	Hell do 51 points of damage and your more likley to kill something.
Empiro 04-12-07, 03:11 AM	An assassin is good at doing just that -- assassination. Most people that aren't expecting it don't go around all day blurred, invisible, or displaced. A 24k cloak of displacement is hardly cheap. A really good assassin of course, will study his victims quite a bit before delivering that final blow. They'd certainly figure out if the target has uncanny dodge or something similar. It's not all that hard to get invisibility either, or just wait until your target's back is turned and either sneaking up or performing a partial charge as your surprise round action. It wouldn't be a bad idea to get Improved Feint and/or take the Invisible Blade PrC. Successfully feinting denies Dex bonus regardless of uncanny dodge or blindsight. At high levels, it would be a good investment to get scroll of blindsight or trueseeing to negate many forms of concealment. I don't believe true strike would help, since it only negates the miss chance due to concealment. I don't know why you'd consider it "gimp" at all. Sure, it's hard to set up, but a good assassin can make that happen.
Vaelan 04-12-07, 03:35 AM	Assassins have a spell in Complete Arcane / Spell Compendium that allows them to death attack at range.
Dheran 06-30-07, 07:44 AM	ANY concealment whatsoever means NO sneak attack. the +1 armor property that grants 10% concealment completely destroys sneak attack. as does blur ,displacement, darkness, mist, fog, fortification. the cheap cloak of displacement and about 10 other items all mean no sneak attack. You're wrong about Displacement and the Cloak of Displacement. Here are the normal rules for sneak attack and concealment.The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach.Total Concealment If you have line of effect to a target but not line of sight he is considered to have total concealment from you. You can’t attack an opponent that has total concealment, though you can attack into a square that you think he occupies.. A successful attack into a square occupied by an enemy with total concealment has a 50% miss chance (instead of the normal 20% miss chance for an opponent with concealment).And here are the descriptions for Displacement and the two Cloaks:Displacement The subject of this spell appears to be about 2 feet away from its true location. The creature benefits from a 50% miss chance as if it had total concealment. However, unlike actual total concealment, displacement does not prevent enemies from targeting the creature normally.Cloak of Displacement, Major This item appears to be a normal cloak, but on command its magical properties distort and warp light waves. This displacement works just like the displacement spell and lasts for a total of 15 rounds per day, which the wearer can divide up as she sees fit. Cloak of Displacement, Minor This item appears to be a normal cloak, but when worn by a character its magical properties distort and warp light waves. This displacement works similar to the displacement spell except that it only grants a 20% miss chance on attacks against the wearer. It functions continually. You can see that Displacement doesn't provide concealment at all, just a miss chance. You're entirely visible, just displaced. Displacement doesn't prevent a Rogue from being "able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot", and it doesn't prevent sneak attack; it just hinders it by introducing a non-concealment miss chance.
JellyPooga 06-30-07, 10:55 AM	Anyhoo, the easiest way to get a death attack is to simply talk to your target for 20 seconds (about 3 rounds), before using Quick Draw to make flat-footed Sneak/Death Attack against them....The 3 rounds of study specifies that you must be unseen OR not registered as an enemy. If you appear to be harmless (apparently unarmed, talking to target), you're not an enemy (no threat). And yes, it is supposed to be hard to get a Death Attack because it kills someone with one hit. If it was easy, it would be stupidly overpowered. Oh yeah, one point about Cloak of Displacement...look up house prices and compare them to the price of a Cloak of Displacement (or even a +1 Longsword or Hewards Handy Haversack). The value of the gear carried by most adventurers at higher levels could easily buy small kingdoms...not everyone has that kind of money.
TheDarkWolf 06-30-07, 05:01 PM	one feat... Flick fo the Wrist
bigbythewise 06-30-07, 10:27 PM	You're wrong about Displacement and the Cloak of Displacement. Here are the normal rules for sneak attack and concealment.And here are the descriptions for Displacement and the two Cloaks: You can see that Displacement doesn't provide concealment at all, just a miss chance. You're entirely visible, just displaced. Displacement doesn't prevent a Rogue from being "able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot", and it doesn't prevent sneak attack; it just hinders it by introducing a non-concealment miss chance. You can't be serious. Read the RULES again please.
Dheran 06-30-07, 11:40 PM	You can't be serious. Read the RULES again please. I'm entirely serious, and I've obviously read the rules (much of which I've quoted). Displacement doesn't provide concealment. While concealment prevents sneak attack, a non-concealment miss chance just reduces the probability of making a hit. If you hit and meet the other requirements for a sneak attack, you add sneak attack damage. Do you have any actual arguments to make?
Tectorman 06-30-07, 11:57 PM	You can't be serious. Read the RULES again please. Okay, please specify exactly which rules he's failing to read. Surely not the ones he's quoted because those, um, support him. Which rules are you talking about?
rkun 07-01-07, 07:33 PM	or you could take a on level dip into monk before you take the assassin class. that way your unarmed strikes deal 1d6 and you wont even need to cary a weapon. i like to think of it as ripping someones heart out of there chest :) .
Jaxgaret 07-01-07, 07:51 PM	Deleted.
bigbythewise 07-01-07, 11:21 PM	I'm entirely serious, and I've obviously read the rules (much of which I've quoted). Displacement doesn't provide concealment. While concealment prevents sneak attack, a non-concealment miss chance just reduces the probability of making a hit. If you hit and meet the other requirements for a sneak attack, you add sneak attack damage. Do you have any actual arguments to make? First of my arguments is...that a phrase you've posted - "a non-concealment miss chance" is something i've never seen in core 3.5 PHB. Let's continue. Concealment: It's 20% miss chance, you can attack and target your opponent normally. (but you can't sneak attack) Total Concealment: You can't TARGET an opponent at all because you can't see him, but if you pinpoint the target, you can attack him blind with a chance of 50% miss. Displacement spell or effect: It's 50% miss chance, but you can TARGET an opponent unlike with Total Concealment. Only difference between Displacement and Total Concealment is to be able/or not be able to TARGET an opponent. (with spell or attack) But it has nothing to do with sneak attack, because being not well seen is all about the miss chance.
Rebel581 07-02-07, 12:02 AM	First of my arguments is...that a phrase you've posted - "a non-concealment miss chance" is something i've never seen in core 3.5 PHB. Let's continue. Concealment: It's 20% miss chance, you can attack and target your opponent normally. (but you can't sneak attack) Total Concealment: You can't TARGET an opponent at all because you can't see him, but if you pinpoint the target, you can attack him blind with a chance of 50% miss. Displacement spell or effect: It's 50% miss chance, but you can TARGET an opponent unlike with Total Concealment. Only difference between Displacement and Total Concealment is to be able/or not be able to TARGET an opponent. (with spell or attack) But that has nothing to do with sneak attack, because being not well seen is all about the miss chance. And the text says "as if" you had concealment. It's just citing that the total concealment and Displacement miss chances are the same.
Leilond 07-02-07, 06:20 AM	Unless it is written "you gain concealment" you "do not gain concealment". It doesn't matter if the object give you the same advantages of the concealment. The object give your opponent a miss chance, dot No concealment or cover
bigbythewise 07-02-07, 03:25 PM	So i take a Blur spell. It's 2nd level and it gives you immunity to sneak attack. (unless you have True Seeing) Hmm. It doesn't really make a sense. Displacement grants you 50% miss, but ask yourself why and imagine that. It's because you are visible at 2 feet distance from your true location. If opponent aims your vital spot and then he miss because of that false image, it doesn't means that he automatically hit the same vital spot on a true target. By the way, is it covered in some FAQs? I would like to see it officially.
Dheran 07-02-07, 05:34 PM	My idea of how Displacement works is pretty simple. They can be displaced 2' left or right, and thrust attacks will miss but horizontal slashes will hit (50% chance). They can be displaced 2' forward or backward, and the thrust attacks hit where you aimed but slashes will miss (the other 50%). While you can't predict which way the target is displaced, the displaced image is clearly visible so you can line up your sword's path with the kidneys, for example -- something you couldn't do against a target with Blur. The hits will come a little earlier or later than you expected depending on which way the target is displaced, but they'll be right on the money. This is all consistent with the statement thatdisplacement does not prevent enemies from targeting the creature normally Blur is a 2nd level spell and it stops 20% of all attacks, plus all sneak attack damage. Displacement is a 3rd level spell and it stops 50% of all attacks, including 50% of all sneak attacks. The relative effectiveness of these spells seems consistent given that most attackers aren't going to have sneak attack at all.
The_wizard_Tim 07-02-07, 07:23 PM	unless it says concealment then you can sneak attack and death attack!..... but other than that just get hide in plain site then wait 3 rounds then stike. or just get invisability and do your death attack! there are lots of ways to get your death attack off you just might need to be creative about it!
bigbythewise 07-02-07, 09:42 PM	The_wizard_Tim: "unless it says concealment then you can sneak attack and death attack!." It's very blind to say something like this. Dheran: I can't help myself, but i still read it in a different way. The phrase "displacement does not prevent enemies from targeting the creature normally" doesn't say "you can sneak attack". It's about "impossibility and possibility to basically target a creature". You can also "target creature normally" if she has 20% Concealment but it isn't the same as "you can target vital spots normally". Official WoTC word (as i expected): The true strike spell negates any miss chance you might have for the target’s concealment, but not any other miss chance. For example, true strike would negate the miss chance from the displacement spell or the miss chance for attacking in fog or an obscuring mist spell because both of those effects conceal the target. True strike does not negate the miss chance from the blink spell or the miss chance when attacking an incorporeal creature because those miss chances don’t have anything to do with concealment. Coup de grace requires a fairly precise hit, so I wouldn’t allow a coup against any creature that has concealment or that imposes a miss chance on the attacker, just as with a sneak attack. End of discussion.
Polaris 07-03-07, 02:55 AM	Dragynson1, Actually it's even worse than you think once you get to high levels. In fact at EPIC levels, you may as well simply erase the sneak attack (and death attack) abilities from your character sheet. Why? Heavy Fortification. For 36,000gp plus the cost of the base MW piece of armor, you can get an item with total fortifaction. Given that it protects against all critical hits and precision damage including sneak attack, it's something that any character will want to get as soon as they can reasonably afford to do so. Like cloaks of displacement, they aren't cheap, but unlike cloaks, they guarantee that you can ignore sneak attack damage. Even worse, the humble mithril buckler or small shield has an ASF of 0% and an ACP of -0. There is also a special armor in Races of the Wild that is ASF 0% and ACP of -0. Either (and the mithril small shield/buckler is core) means that ANY class (except the Monk) can take full advantage of this. If you are using the Arms and Equipment guide, you can add this enchantment to bracers of armor at which point ANY class can take full advantage. Basically after 15-17th level, don't count on getting any sneak attack (or death attacks). -Polaris
Dheran 07-03-07, 09:42 AM	The phrase "displacement does not prevent enemies from targeting the creature normally" doesn't say "you can sneak attack". What's the difference, then, between total concealment offering a 50% miss chance, and Displacement offering a 50% miss chance? There is a difference, and it's exactly the line you quoted. If being able to target the creature normally isn't the same as being able to strike for precision damage, what is it? This is the crux of the discussion.
Ellone 07-03-07, 10:18 AM	Well displacement give a concealment like 50% miss chance, but still no concealment. That's why true strike can go past a displacment spell. Try to make a coup de grace on a blinking creature, when you hit, the creature is either here or not here... But if it's here, the coup de grace will take effect. Still, if by the rule displacment give no concealment but only concealment like miss chance, i find difficult to understand how a rogue character would adjust a hit to a vital spot when she doesn't know where this vital spot exactly is.
Leilond 07-03-07, 11:32 AM	Well displacement give a concealment like 50% miss chance, but still no concealment. That's why true strike can go past a displacment spell. Try to make a coup de grace on a blinking creature, when you hit, the creature is either here or not here... But if it's here, the coup de grace will take effect. What does it means? Blink is another different issue. Another way to gain the same miss chance of displacement Still, if by the rule displacment give no concealment but only concealment like miss chance, i find difficult to understand how a rogue character would adjust a hit to a vital spot when she doesn't know where this vital spot exactly is. We're discussin RAW, not "common sense". After we agree on what the rules as written explicity say, we can apply any house rule we want to make the rule better fit the "common sense" By the rules something that provide the bonus A that has the same effect of one of the benefit of the bonus B, doesn't provide the bonus B, only something that give one of the benefit of bonus B If they wanted that displacement provide all the effect of total concealment, they wrote it. They instead wrote only the part of total concealment that work in this situation. If there was written: "the creatur benefits of total concealment" you where right, but it isn't written that, it is written "The creature benefits from a 50% miss chance as if it had total concealment" that ins't the same thing
Ellone 07-03-07, 12:03 PM	What does it means? Blink is another different issue. Another way to gain the same miss chance of displacement i was addressing this bigbythewise argument Coup de grace requires a fairly precise hit, so I wouldn’t allow a coup against any creature that has concealment or that imposes a miss chance on the attacker, just as with a sneak attack. sorry for not quoting it. We're discussin RAW, not "common sense". that's exactly what i said, the raw don't give concealment for displacement. I do agree with this. Still i don't find this strict rule application to be following common sense regarding sneak attack. That's my mind, and i am still free to express it. I would disalow sneak attack on a displaced target and i don't think the game designer have specificly writen the text of displacment this way to allow sneak attack, but rather to allow displaced character targeting
bigbythewise 07-03-07, 12:09 PM	If there was written: "the creatur benefits of total concealment" you where right, but it isn't written that, it is written "The creature benefits from a 50% miss chance as if it had total concealment" that ins't the same thing If a Displacement spell would gives you "the benefits of total concealment" then no one would be able to target you at all. And this is the only difference. It's because of that "as if" in a previous sentence" why description says "except that you can be targeted normally". SRD 3.5 (Combat) Total Concealment: If you have line of effect to a target but not line of sight he is considered to have total concealment from you. You can’t attack an opponent that has total concealment, though you can attack into a square that you think he occupies. A successful attack into a square occupied by an enemy with total concealment has a 50% miss chance (instead of the normal 20% miss chance for an opponent with concealment). Targeted normally is not the same as sneak attacked normally in this case. If you are under Blur spell or hidden in shadow for 20% concealment, you can be still targeted normally. But you can't be sneak attacked because to sneak attack you must: -be able to reach and see well the vital spots -be able to target precisely this spots It hasn't been written by myself. It's a quote from Official FAQs: Coup de grace requires a fairly precise hit, so I wouldn’t allow a coup against any creature that has concealment or that imposes a miss chance on the attacker, just as with a sneak attack. So my assumption is correct. It's RAW! You can't argue! God, i hate those type of discussion. :o)
bigbythewise 07-03-07, 12:46 PM	Try to make a coup de grace on a blinking creature, when you hit, the creature is either here or not here... But if it's here, the coup de grace will take effect. No, it won't.
Polaris 07-03-07, 12:58 PM	It hasn't been written by myself. It's a quote from Official FAQs: Coup de grace requires a fairly precise hit, so I wouldn’t allow a coup against any creature that has concealment or that imposes a miss chance on the attacker, just as with a sneak attack. So my assumption is correct. It's RAW! You can't argue! God, i hate those type of discussion. :o) Sorry but no. The FAQ doesn't say what you think it is. Here is the key part: "so I wouldn't allow" That's a house rule not an official rules interpretation. If it were an official interpretation, it would say that you couldn't coup de grace a creature with concealment, but that isn't what it says. It seems simple enough to me. Concealment always gives a miss chance, but not all miss chances are due to concealment. Only concealment explicitly denies precision damage. Therefore unless the miss chance is explicitly due to concealment, precision damage is still permitted (unless specifically told otherwise). Just using "Rules As Written by Hoyle". -Polaris
Dheran 07-03-07, 01:08 PM	Official WoTC word (as i expected): The true strike spell negates any miss chance you might have for the target’s concealment, but not any other miss chance. For example, true strike would negate the miss chance from the displacement spell or the miss chance for attacking in fog or an obscuring mist spell because both of those effects conceal the target. True strike does not negate the miss chance from the blink spell or the miss chance when attacking an incorporeal creature because those miss chances don’t have anything to do with concealment. I'm not sure where your "Official WoTC word" is coming from, but here's something from the current FAQ (Updated 06/15/07) that makes it clear that Displacement's miss chance isn't from concealment:The seeking property for ranged weapons says it negates “any miss chances that would otherwise apply” (Dungeon Master’s Guide, 225). Does this also negate the AC bonus from cover, since that creates a chance that your attack will miss? No. The phrase “miss chance” specifically refers to percentile rolls used to determine whether an otherwise successful attack actually misses. Concealment is the most common effect that creates a miss chance, but it would also apply to similar effects such as the displacement spell (Player’s Handbook, 223), but not to incorporealness.
Lucas Blackstone 07-03-07, 01:10 PM	I thought earlier it was said that miss chances for blinking/incorporeal targets had nothing to do with concealment. Why wouldn't they be able to be coup'd as per normal if they "were there"? The FAQ is often wrong and really shouldn't quoted as RAW. In this case specifically under Coup De Grace, it says that creatures with total concealment can be coup'd. Pg. 154, Players handbook - Under Helpless Defenders , Coup De Grace subheading. "You can deliver a coup de grace against a creature with total concealment, but doing this requires two consecutive full round actions (one to "find" the creature once you've determined what square it's in, and one to deliver the coup de grace)" In response to the OP, I've always believed that Death attack in general was weak not because of the ability and timing to apply it, since that is up to the attacker to meet the requirements, but because the DC to resist it was so low in my opinion. Those three rounds of studying said target could have bene put to better use by killing said target with damage rather then a relatively pitiful fort save.
wonlee76 07-03-07, 03:30 PM	ANY concealment whatsoever means NO sneak attack. the +1 armor property that grants 10% concealment completely destroys sneak attack. as does blur ,displacement, darkness, mist, fog, fortification. the cheap cloak of displacement and about 10 other items all mean no sneak attack. Well, for every method there is to use magic to negate sneak attack, there is magic that can counter these abilities. UMD is a rogue's best friend. (As an aside, I'm in the camp that displacement and blur would negate sneak attack). True seeing via scroll or other magical item to deal with blur or displacement. Scroll of Devil's Sight to deal with darkness. Magical item that grants tremorsense or blindsight to deal with obscuring mist or fog. etc. etc. A rogue in shadowy illumination can hide fine, but cant get a mellee sneak attack. and can only sneak attack into the bright light. unless you have darkvision, and your opponent doesnt. Darkvision keeps you from hiding in shadows and sneak attacking. I'm pretty certain Darkvision does not negate Hide. As for having darkvision itself, scrolls of darkvision or Goggles of the night are must have items for rogues in my opinion. A rogue with cover can hide, but cant move to attack very well. Sure they can if they use a range attack and are within 30 feet of the target and win their hide check, get a surprise round or win initiative. Any class with uncanny dodge prevents being flatfooted to attackers. That by itself removes surprise attacks, hiding and invisibility. blindfight removes invis and hiding But there are only 2 core classes (maybe another 2 if you include other classes like Binder or similar that may give this ability through some kind of class ability) that get Uncanny Dodge as a class ability, one of which is rogue so I don't see this being a huge or common advantage of the enemy (unless you're playing gestalt). improved uncanny dodge removes flanking to sneak attack. a couple magic items and about 50 classes grant this. I admit there are several prestige classes that give Uncanny Dodge but most of those prestige classes are rogue based so its not as many classes as you think. I'm not sure about magical items that grant uncanny dodge or improved uncanny dodge though. Any creature with blindsight Blindsight doesn't protect the target from being flat footed so you could win intiative against them. Plus with a range of around 60 feet (usually) you could still get the drop on them. The only way i can see to get a 1/2 way reliable sneak attack is at range I would add feinting and the feat Telling Blow as additional ways to get sneak attacks in general. Death attack specifies MELLEE WEAPON. Which means you have to be undetected while approching which means invis most likely and even then most likely need a flanker, and pray they arent a barbarian rogue or some class with improved uncanny dodge. Or hope they wonder by some cover your hiding behind in the 3 rounds you have it prepped. Those 3 rounds studying could be spent doing something else, like using drow sleep poison on your enemy until he fails a save so you can coup de grace them while they're asleep. blindsense, and tremor sense prevent death attacks but not sneak attacks So don't use death attack against these enemies of choose different methods of attack like flying which I believe negates tremor sense or some other magical spell/item that might negate blindsense (I'm not sure whether such a thing exists but worth reseaching). Am i reading this wrong or is death attack gimp against 99% of the game. The only thing i can see to get around even some of that without countering yourself is blur or invis. blur is better though. and truestrike is needed to cancel others concealment. Sorry if I am ranting, im a little frustrated. Death Attack is not a very good class ability in general. Spending 3 rounds just for the opportunity to insta-kill (with a relatively low Fort Save to boot) something is a waste of time when there are probably lots of things you could do during those 3 rounds that is more productive. Sneak attack requires some finesse to work effectively and the supplements have expanded ways to give a PC/NPC more opportunities to deal sneak attacks. Telling Blow (PHB II): Sneak attack on confirmed critical hits. Feint/Improved Feint: Move action to feint, Standard action to attack. Counters Uncanny Dodge. Dungeonscape Substitution Ability (I forget the name): Flank sneak attack for 1/2 dice/damage against enemies that are normally immune to sneak attacks. Ghost Strike Weapon Enhancement (LM): Sneak attack incorporeal undead normally. "Strike" spells from SC: Tricky to use due to the swift action casting time and 1 rd duration but a wand of extended "vine strike" etc. opens up a world of ways to get some sneak attack against creatures normally immune to it. Augment Gem from MIC: Sneak attack undead creatures normally. True Seeing Items (Like gem of true seeing): Negates some of the pesky illusion concealment spells in the game. Blind Sense/Tremor Sense: Flying might counter Tremor sense. Not sure if there are counters to Blind Sense. Either way, both of these abilities are relatively rare in my experience.
bigbythewise 07-03-07, 03:52 PM	I would like to directly ask Wizards of the Coast about this. Is there any way to do it? This RAW/FAQ/House rule arguing really starts to getting me bored. :rolleyes:
tui 07-03-07, 04:34 PM	I would like to directly ask Wizards of the Coast about this. Is there any way to do it? This RAW/FAQ/House rule arguing really starts to getting me bored. :rolleyes: Sure, you can Contact Wizards Customer Service (http://wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=489). Hopefully that link will work for you... if not, click on the Contact Us link at the very bottom of your page and follow the links..
bigbythewise 07-03-07, 04:36 PM	I'm not sure where your "Official WoTC word" is coming from, but here's something from the current FAQ (Updated 06/15/07) that makes it clear that Displacement's miss chance isn't from concealment: Ok. But if it's right, then a True Strike spell should not be able to help against Displacement spell because it has a "non-concealment miss chance". But if would help (and it can, it's confirmed by quoted FAQ), then it would also help against Blink spell and Incorporeality which are also "non-concealment miss chances". Don't you think?
Dheran 07-04-07, 06:59 AM	Ok. But if it's right, then a True Strike spell should not be able to help against Displacement spell because it has a "non-concealment miss chance". But if would help (and it can, it's confirmed by quoted FAQ) What FAQ are you referring to? The current version of the official D&D 3.5 FAQ doesn't have any reference to True Strike and Displacement. Where did you find this quote? You can download v.3.5 Main D&D FAQ here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a).
bigbythewise 07-04-07, 01:23 PM	What FAQ are you referring to? The current version of the official D&D 3.5 FAQ doesn't have any reference to True Strike and Displacement. Where did you find this quote? You can download v.3.5 Main D&D FAQ here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a). I found it in FAQs 3.0e, but both spells wasn't changed yet in 3.5e. I doubt we can find some proof that they were changed since the FAQ 3.0 description because there is not True Strike revision both in 3.5e rules and 3.5e FAQs.
Polaris 07-05-07, 04:35 AM	I found it in FAQs 3.0e, but both spells wasn't changed yet in 3.5e. I doubt we can find some proof that they were changed since the FAQ 3.0 description because there is not True Strike revision both in 3.5e rules and 3.5e FAQs. Unfortunately rulings in the 3.0 FAQ no longer hold any official weight in 3.5. I found this out the hard way when I thought that the 3.0 FAQ ruling applied for clerics and divine foci and was told point blank that nothing in the 3.0 FAQ applied unless specifically restated in the 3.5 FAQ. -Polaris
Dheran 07-05-07, 08:44 PM	I found it in FAQs 3.0e, but both spells wasn't changed yet in 3.5e. Perhaps the spells weren't changed, but the way concealment works has changed a lot from 3.0 to 3.5. This means that any 3.0 statement regarding concealment isn't really relevant to 3.5 rules.
WolfHati 07-05-07, 09:26 PM	Death attack is for *assassinating* people, not for fighting in combat. Anyone who is trying to assassinate someone in combat either cares about their own skin than their fellow party members, or is just kinda dumb. Anyway, an assassin gets full sneak attack progression, some spells, hide in plain sight, and poison use, so death attack is hardly the only thing it gets. The ability to wipe someone out before combat begins is real nice though. It just requires some forethought. Like a fight with a BBEG wearing a cloak(er assassin).