Qualify for Craft Wand without any Spellcasting classes? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Qualify for Craft Wand without any Spellcasting classes? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Corey_Austin
04-02-07, 02:42 PM Is there any way to qualify for craft wand without it? I wanted my skill monkey (Rogue 10 / Exemplar 10) to be a wand expert, but without craft wand (Caster Level 5 pre-req), I can't get access to any of the wand-related feats.
Loki5654
04-02-07, 02:59 PM You really only have two options:

Option A: Take 5 levels of a spellcasting class.

Option B: DM fiat (i.e. house-rule).
Nephlite
04-02-07, 03:06 PM Is there any way to qualify for craft wand without it? I wanted my skill monkey (Rogue 10 / Exemplar 10) to be a wand expert, but without craft wand (Caster Level 5 pre-req), I can't get access to any of the wand-related feats.

Step 1 : Take levels in Artificer to get it.
Step 2: ??? (maybe craft wands of any spell)
Step 3: Profit

Artificers aren't true casters(as they use infusions), but they make great crafters.
Loki5654
04-02-07, 03:23 PM Except an Artificer doesn't get Craft Wand until 6th level, so it would be less "level expensive" to take wizard or cleric.

Granted 6 levels in Artificer would give him a lot more cool things he could do with wands.
Corey_Austin
04-02-07, 04:04 PM unfortunately there are a lot of house rules for what i have to work with due to the large number of players we have and the difficulty in creating challenging encounters with so many experienced players.

Here's the cut and paste:

1.) Thou shalt have a racial level adjustment limit of +1.
2.) Thou must have at least 4 levels in a PHB1 base class (UA/PBII Variants Allowed). Additionally, thou must take at least 4 levels of any base class you advance in.
3.) Thou shalt finish all prestige classes you take a level in before advancing any other class. (All WotC 3.5ed Non-Eberron PrCs Valid)
4.) Thou shalt suffer a 10% exp penalty per non-favored base class beyond the first. Additionally, thou shalt suffer a 50% penalty per prestige class beyond the first in a 10 level span.
5.) Thou shalt not speak the word "Eberron".
6.) Thou shalt not speak the words "Metamagic Spell Trigger".
7.) Thou shalt plot thy weapons by Speed Rating.
8.) Thou shalt follow the guidelines for Haste Rating.
9.) Thou shalt survive by laws of Integrity Rating.
9.) Thou shalt know alignment does not exist in the prerequisite sense, spells will function normally based upon a subject's values and actions.
10.) Thou shalt not fight in party, at penalty of rerolling as a Half-Orc Bard with a 10 point buy.
Merestil Haye
04-02-07, 05:03 PM unfortunately there are a lot of house rules for what i have to work with due to the large number of players we have and the difficulty in creating challenging encounters with so many experienced players.

Here's the cut and paste:4.) Thou shalt suffer a 10% exp penalty per non-favored base class beyond the first. Additionally, thou shalt suffer a 50% penalty per prestige class beyond the first in a 10 level span.I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here. Are you saying that merely taking levels in a second base class will give you an xp penalty (if neither happen to be your favoured class)? How on earth do you ever persuade anyone to play anything not human, unless they actually take levels in their racial base class?

And what about Archmage / Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil (neither of which are 10-level classes)? Or any other combination including a PrC that is less than 10 levels deep? It really looks to me as if you force all players into an xp penalty. Is that your intention?

On the subject of your post, I think you'll find that the Warlock class can qualify for item creation feats even though he does not cast spells. In this case, I believe his warlock class level = his caster level for the purposes of determining feats he qualifies for. They aren't useful until 12th level, though.
MerlintheTuna
04-02-07, 05:39 PM 2.) Thou must have at least 4 levels in a PHB1 base class (UA/PBII Variants Allowed). Additionally, thou must take at least 4 levels of any base class you advance in.
3.) Thou shalt finish all prestige classes you take a level in before advancing any other class. (All WotC 3.5ed Non-Eberron PrCs Valid)
4.) Thou shalt suffer a 10% exp penalty per non-favored base class beyond the first. Additionally, thou shalt suffer a 50% penalty per prestige class beyond the first in a 10 level span.
5.) Thou shalt not speak the word "Eberron".
7.) Thou shalt plot thy weapons by Speed Rating.
8.) Thou shalt follow the guidelines for Haste Rating.
9.) Thou shalt survive by laws of Integrity Rating.Ouch. Bummer.
Corey_Austin
04-02-07, 05:42 PM I'm not the DM of that one, but humans have Favored Class rogue in his game X_X.

I'm not sure on the specifics of the Exp penalty thing myself, but I think its supposed to mean that they're supposed to advance their base classes in between prestiges rather than jumping from one to another immediately.

The haste/speed/integrity thing is all something they house ruled as well. Initiative is done (dex+int+wis mods)/2, then they do passes of 10 till the number hits 0 (so a high rolling initative could theoretically get more turns than a low roller), and haste's primary effect is increasing initiative (no bonus attack, tiny ac/reflex bonus)

Integrity is a base 100% number that decreases each time a character can be ressurected by 5% (10% if killed by massive damage or death effect), regenerates 1% per month, or by quest reward. the lower the % gets, the higher stacking penalties you get.

Speed rating is a cause all of the weapons have different damage values, and speed is the # you divide by to get how many attacks you get with it. (the only example i remember offhand was that unarmed combat dealt 1d3 damage, or 1d6+1/2 str monk with a speed rating of BAB3)
MerlintheTuna
04-02-07, 05:53 PM I'm not sure on the specifics of the Exp penalty thing myself, but I think its supposed to mean that they're supposed to advance their base classes in between prestiges rather than jumping from one to another immediately.As read, it's just a tighter restriction on the existing multiclassing rules. Normally, it's "20% per non-favored class that isn't within 1 level of other non-favored classes." So a Halfling Rogue 7/Wizard 2/Ranger 1 wouldn't take a penalty, but Rogue 7/Wizard 3/Ranger 1 would. (He could go either 7/2/2/ or 8/2/1 to avoid the penalty.) This rule reduces the penalty but takes out the "within 1 level" part, so a Halfling Wizard 6/Ranger 6 takes an experience penalty, and has ever since he started multiclassing.

That, combined with the rest of them makes it sound like the DM just can't get away from classic archetypes. Apparently he enjoys seeing a Gimli and a Legolas in every other group. <Shrug>
Corey_Austin
04-02-07, 06:02 PM actually our planned group is:

Human Rogue/Exemplar (me!)
Aasimar Warlock/Holy Light Warlock (swap hellfire for holy, fiendish for celestial)
Faun "Swift Hunter" Druid variant
Pixie (weakened i think) Paladin/Cavalier (w/ Grasshopper mount i think)
and 2 other players who can't show every game: an Awakened Nimblewright (reduced stats) Swashbuckler, and a Crested Feldrake (reduced HD) Ranger.
SolenVlos
04-02-07, 06:16 PM IMC it's different. goes like this:

1.) Mix any templates and powerfull races you want. just have a good story and deal with the LA.
2.) you are almost always single-classed no matter what classes you have. if you are fgt-1/wiz-2 you can call yourself a bladesinger if it fits you.
3.) so, if you are brb6/fgt2/clr1 you are just a ritualistic barbarian, not a barbarian with formal trainning and a priest.
4.) also, no xp pernalty. ever.
5.) Eberron, Mastica, Homemade. whatever. just add a story.
6.) custom made magic itens are ok.
7.) I think you get the idea.
Kurama Youko
04-02-07, 06:16 PM Does one level of a spellcasting class + Practice Spellcaster not qualify for you Craft Wands?
Corey_Austin
04-02-07, 06:16 PM Well, I just talked to him for a sec while he's at work. I've been given the go ahead on the wand feats on the condition it doesn't get abusive. Go go Rod of Many Wands spam!

for those still wondering, the penalty thing works out like this: 10% exp penalty if you have more than one base class, and neither is favored. 50% penalty if you have more than one prestige class before you finish level 10 in your base class. Kinda weird, and worded poorly but /shrug.

And yeah SolenVos, he's a stickler for the background stories too if we're playing in one of his games. General free reign in making custom items, but it always ends up costing about 1.5x what it should if its custom X_X
MerlintheTuna
04-02-07, 07:13 PM Aasimar Warlock/Holy Light Warlock (swap hellfire for holy, fiendish for celestial)
Nimblewright (reduced stats) SwashbucklerHrm. Those two don't meet commandment 2. But whatever. I've derailed the topic. Apologies.

A level of a spellcasting class and Practiced Spellcaster will indeed get you to Caster Level 5th, allowing you to take Craft Wand. Aside from that, you could try to do some actual multiclassing -- Rogue/Wizard/Arcane Trickster would work well (although I'm not sure if your DM will actually allow Rogue 3/Wizard 5/AT X, which is the most reasonable way to enter the class) to get your caster level up, or you could be a Spellthief (again, not necessarily allowed on account of the questionably-effect commandment 2). That delays Craft Wand until 10th level, or until 5th if you pick up Practiced Spellcaster. Practiced Spellcaster is arguably more useful in this case, as your CL will continue to advance.
Corey_Austin
04-02-07, 07:39 PM from what i understand the abilities/stats on the non-standard races have been reduced to cosmetic until they choose to "level into" their races. the +1 was the limit for races which you'd get the full stats and abilities of.

I had no plans on making any of the wands myself, btw. The goal was just to be able to get access to the wand feats so i can maximize the uses of my bracer of wands, rod of many wands, wand storing hand crossbow, etc.
MerlintheTuna
04-02-07, 07:50 PM I had no plans on making any of the wands myself, btw. The goal was just to be able to get access to the wand feats so i can maximize the uses of my bracer of wands, rod of many wands, wand storing hand crossbow, etc.Ah. I figured you were after Wand-based feats, like Complete Arcane's Reckless Wand Wielder and Double Wand Wielding, both of which require Craft Wand. If you just want to use them, be nice to the Druid and the Warlock, who gains the ability to craft magic items at 12th level.
teshen
04-02-07, 08:21 PM Disclaimer: Tangent...

I'm not the DM of that one, but humans have Favored Class rogue in his game X_X.
What the... so all us humans are thieves... is that it HuH?! Following me around the general store, thinking I'm going to try to pocket something... I see it in your eyes... :censored:

I'm not sure on the specifics of the Exp penalty thing myself, but I think its supposed to mean that they're supposed to advance their base classes in between prestiges rather than jumping from one to another immediately.
And in otherwords, he's applying a metagame idea to inhibit roleplaying... :rolleyes:

The haste/speed/integrity thing is all something they house ruled as well. Initiative is done (dex+int+wis mods)/2, then they do passes of 10 till the number hits 0 (so a high rolling initative could theoretically get more turns than a low roller), and haste's primary effect is increasing initiative (no bonus attack, tiny ac/reflex bonus)

Integrity is a base 100% number that decreases each time a character can be ressurected by 5% (10% if killed by massive damage or death effect), regenerates 1% per month, or by quest reward. the lower the % gets, the higher stacking penalties you get.

Speed rating is a cause all of the weapons have different damage values, and speed is the # you divide by to get how many attacks you get with it. (the only example i remember offhand was that unarmed combat dealt 1d3 damage, or 1d6+1/2 str monk with a speed rating of BAB3)
So in otherwords, your storyteller has adapted a d6 Shadowrun mechanic to a game not designed for it. I understand the need for making things make a little more 'real'... and if that is his desire, he should play another game system... Something lots of charts and lots of numbers that have nothing to do with fun, like Rifts... :ahem:

...and just because I love this little smilie and haven't had a chance to use it... :rant:
Corey_Austin
04-02-07, 10:01 PM And in otherwords, he's applying a metagame idea to inhibit roleplaying... :rolleyes:

More to prevent the kind of stuff that goes on in the "broken challenges" on the CO boards. Everything is allowed beyond eberron, but you're expected to show actual dedication and interest in the classes you pick rather than using them as stepping stones to the next "uber combo".

And I didn't say "shadowrun initiative" because I am posting on a d20 board, and I don't expect people to know it. We've done initiative passes before, and it usually works out just fine with a minor tinker to 3-4 feats/class abilities (Basically anything that gives a bonus to initiative is dropped to a flat +1 bonus).

Your rant was pretty pointless, because all you really did was express your own disinterest in doing anything out of the norm. Or maybe by your contempt with Rifts and charts I can assume you have poor basic math skills.

The d20 system isn't perfect by any means, nothing is wrong with tinkering a bit to find what works for your group or to freshen things up, especially when said group knows as much about the game as the DM does.
Corey_Austin
04-02-07, 10:03 PM The weapon speed ratings are new though, I'm not sure how that is going to turn out. I think the everquest d20 game did something similar.
NoldorForce
04-02-07, 10:19 PM Regardless, spell-like abilities can be used to qualify for crafting feats. Most if not all of them require caster levels, and Complete Arcane implies that those generated from SLAs can be used to meet those prerequisites.

Getting access to a SLA can probably be done using a lesser version of a template that grants SLAs, or something like a Planetouched or Feytouched. Aasimar and tieflings, for instance, each have a single SLA whose caster level is equal to your class levels. (This sort of thing is how I'd managed to get an Akashic//Chameleon to qualify for item creation feats, using one SLA from Akashic.) And since the houserules explicitly require a +1 LA race...
liquidhypnotic
04-27-07, 12:13 AM Well, it said LA limit of 1.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Corey_Austin 04-02-07, 02:42 PM	Is there any way to qualify for craft wand without it? I wanted my skill monkey (Rogue 10 / Exemplar 10) to be a wand expert, but without craft wand (Caster Level 5 pre-req), I can't get access to any of the wand-related feats.
Loki5654 04-02-07, 02:59 PM	You really only have two options: Option A: Take 5 levels of a spellcasting class. Option B: DM fiat (i.e. house-rule).
Nephlite 04-02-07, 03:06 PM	Is there any way to qualify for craft wand without it? I wanted my skill monkey (Rogue 10 / Exemplar 10) to be a wand expert, but without craft wand (Caster Level 5 pre-req), I can't get access to any of the wand-related feats. Step 1 : Take levels in Artificer to get it. Step 2: ??? (maybe craft wands of any spell) Step 3: Profit Artificers aren't true casters(as they use infusions), but they make great crafters.
Loki5654 04-02-07, 03:23 PM	Except an Artificer doesn't get Craft Wand until 6th level, so it would be less "level expensive" to take wizard or cleric. Granted 6 levels in Artificer would give him a lot more cool things he could do with wands.
Corey_Austin 04-02-07, 04:04 PM	unfortunately there are a lot of house rules for what i have to work with due to the large number of players we have and the difficulty in creating challenging encounters with so many experienced players. Here's the cut and paste: 1.) Thou shalt have a racial level adjustment limit of +1. 2.) Thou must have at least 4 levels in a PHB1 base class (UA/PBII Variants Allowed). Additionally, thou must take at least 4 levels of any base class you advance in. 3.) Thou shalt finish all prestige classes you take a level in before advancing any other class. (All WotC 3.5ed Non-Eberron PrCs Valid) 4.) Thou shalt suffer a 10% exp penalty per non-favored base class beyond the first. Additionally, thou shalt suffer a 50% penalty per prestige class beyond the first in a 10 level span. 5.) Thou shalt not speak the word "Eberron". 6.) Thou shalt not speak the words "Metamagic Spell Trigger". 7.) Thou shalt plot thy weapons by Speed Rating. 8.) Thou shalt follow the guidelines for Haste Rating. 9.) Thou shalt survive by laws of Integrity Rating. 9.) Thou shalt know alignment does not exist in the prerequisite sense, spells will function normally based upon a subject's values and actions. 10.) Thou shalt not fight in party, at penalty of rerolling as a Half-Orc Bard with a 10 point buy.
Merestil Haye 04-02-07, 05:03 PM	unfortunately there are a lot of house rules for what i have to work with due to the large number of players we have and the difficulty in creating challenging encounters with so many experienced players. Here's the cut and paste:4.) Thou shalt suffer a 10% exp penalty per non-favored base class beyond the first. Additionally, thou shalt suffer a 50% penalty per prestige class beyond the first in a 10 level span.I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here. Are you saying that merely taking levels in a second base class will give you an xp penalty (if neither happen to be your favoured class)? How on earth do you ever persuade anyone to play anything not human, unless they actually take levels in their racial base class? And what about Archmage / Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil (neither of which are 10-level classes)? Or any other combination including a PrC that is less than 10 levels deep? It really looks to me as if you force all players into an xp penalty. Is that your intention? On the subject of your post, I think you'll find that the Warlock class can qualify for item creation feats even though he does not cast spells. In this case, I believe his warlock class level = his caster level for the purposes of determining feats he qualifies for. They aren't useful until 12th level, though.
MerlintheTuna 04-02-07, 05:39 PM	2.) Thou must have at least 4 levels in a PHB1 base class (UA/PBII Variants Allowed). Additionally, thou must take at least 4 levels of any base class you advance in. 3.) Thou shalt finish all prestige classes you take a level in before advancing any other class. (All WotC 3.5ed Non-Eberron PrCs Valid) 4.) Thou shalt suffer a 10% exp penalty per non-favored base class beyond the first. Additionally, thou shalt suffer a 50% penalty per prestige class beyond the first in a 10 level span. 5.) Thou shalt not speak the word "Eberron". 7.) Thou shalt plot thy weapons by Speed Rating. 8.) Thou shalt follow the guidelines for Haste Rating. 9.) Thou shalt survive by laws of Integrity Rating.Ouch. Bummer.
Corey_Austin 04-02-07, 05:42 PM	I'm not the DM of that one, but humans have Favored Class rogue in his game X_X. I'm not sure on the specifics of the Exp penalty thing myself, but I think its supposed to mean that they're supposed to advance their base classes in between prestiges rather than jumping from one to another immediately. The haste/speed/integrity thing is all something they house ruled as well. Initiative is done (dex+int+wis mods)/2, then they do passes of 10 till the number hits 0 (so a high rolling initative could theoretically get more turns than a low roller), and haste's primary effect is increasing initiative (no bonus attack, tiny ac/reflex bonus) Integrity is a base 100% number that decreases each time a character can be ressurected by 5% (10% if killed by massive damage or death effect), regenerates 1% per month, or by quest reward. the lower the % gets, the higher stacking penalties you get. Speed rating is a cause all of the weapons have different damage values, and speed is the # you divide by to get how many attacks you get with it. (the only example i remember offhand was that unarmed combat dealt 1d3 damage, or 1d6+1/2 str monk with a speed rating of BAB3)
MerlintheTuna 04-02-07, 05:53 PM	I'm not sure on the specifics of the Exp penalty thing myself, but I think its supposed to mean that they're supposed to advance their base classes in between prestiges rather than jumping from one to another immediately.As read, it's just a tighter restriction on the existing multiclassing rules. Normally, it's "20% per non-favored class that isn't within 1 level of other non-favored classes." So a Halfling Rogue 7/Wizard 2/Ranger 1 wouldn't take a penalty, but Rogue 7/Wizard 3/Ranger 1 would. (He could go either 7/2/2/ or 8/2/1 to avoid the penalty.) This rule reduces the penalty but takes out the "within 1 level" part, so a Halfling Wizard 6/Ranger 6 takes an experience penalty, and has ever since he started multiclassing. That, combined with the rest of them makes it sound like the DM just can't get away from classic archetypes. Apparently he enjoys seeing a Gimli and a Legolas in every other group. <Shrug>
Corey_Austin 04-02-07, 06:02 PM	actually our planned group is: Human Rogue/Exemplar (me!) Aasimar Warlock/Holy Light Warlock (swap hellfire for holy, fiendish for celestial) Faun "Swift Hunter" Druid variant Pixie (weakened i think) Paladin/Cavalier (w/ Grasshopper mount i think) and 2 other players who can't show every game: an Awakened Nimblewright (reduced stats) Swashbuckler, and a Crested Feldrake (reduced HD) Ranger.
SolenVlos 04-02-07, 06:16 PM	IMC it's different. goes like this: 1.) Mix any templates and powerfull races you want. just have a good story and deal with the LA. 2.) you are almost always single-classed no matter what classes you have. if you are fgt-1/wiz-2 you can call yourself a bladesinger if it fits you. 3.) so, if you are brb6/fgt2/clr1 you are just a ritualistic barbarian, not a barbarian with formal trainning and a priest. 4.) also, no xp pernalty. ever. 5.) Eberron, Mastica, Homemade. whatever. just add a story. 6.) custom made magic itens are ok. 7.) I think you get the idea.
Kurama Youko 04-02-07, 06:16 PM	Does one level of a spellcasting class + Practice Spellcaster not qualify for you Craft Wands?
Corey_Austin 04-02-07, 06:16 PM	Well, I just talked to him for a sec while he's at work. I've been given the go ahead on the wand feats on the condition it doesn't get abusive. Go go Rod of Many Wands spam! for those still wondering, the penalty thing works out like this: 10% exp penalty if you have more than one base class, and neither is favored. 50% penalty if you have more than one prestige class before you finish level 10 in your base class. Kinda weird, and worded poorly but /shrug. And yeah SolenVos, he's a stickler for the background stories too if we're playing in one of his games. General free reign in making custom items, but it always ends up costing about 1.5x what it should if its custom X_X
MerlintheTuna 04-02-07, 07:13 PM	Aasimar Warlock/Holy Light Warlock (swap hellfire for holy, fiendish for celestial) Nimblewright (reduced stats) SwashbucklerHrm. Those two don't meet commandment 2. But whatever. I've derailed the topic. Apologies. A level of a spellcasting class and Practiced Spellcaster will indeed get you to Caster Level 5th, allowing you to take Craft Wand. Aside from that, you could try to do some actual multiclassing -- Rogue/Wizard/Arcane Trickster would work well (although I'm not sure if your DM will actually allow Rogue 3/Wizard 5/AT X, which is the most reasonable way to enter the class) to get your caster level up, or you could be a Spellthief (again, not necessarily allowed on account of the questionably-effect commandment 2). That delays Craft Wand until 10th level, or until 5th if you pick up Practiced Spellcaster. Practiced Spellcaster is arguably more useful in this case, as your CL will continue to advance.
Corey_Austin 04-02-07, 07:39 PM	from what i understand the abilities/stats on the non-standard races have been reduced to cosmetic until they choose to "level into" their races. the +1 was the limit for races which you'd get the full stats and abilities of. I had no plans on making any of the wands myself, btw. The goal was just to be able to get access to the wand feats so i can maximize the uses of my bracer of wands, rod of many wands, wand storing hand crossbow, etc.
MerlintheTuna 04-02-07, 07:50 PM	I had no plans on making any of the wands myself, btw. The goal was just to be able to get access to the wand feats so i can maximize the uses of my bracer of wands, rod of many wands, wand storing hand crossbow, etc.Ah. I figured you were after Wand-based feats, like Complete Arcane's Reckless Wand Wielder and Double Wand Wielding, both of which require Craft Wand. If you just want to use them, be nice to the Druid and the Warlock, who gains the ability to craft magic items at 12th level.
teshen 04-02-07, 08:21 PM	Disclaimer: Tangent... I'm not the DM of that one, but humans have Favored Class rogue in his game X_X. What the... so all us humans are thieves... is that it HuH?! Following me around the general store, thinking I'm going to try to pocket something... I see it in your eyes... :censored: I'm not sure on the specifics of the Exp penalty thing myself, but I think its supposed to mean that they're supposed to advance their base classes in between prestiges rather than jumping from one to another immediately. And in otherwords, he's applying a metagame idea to inhibit roleplaying... :rolleyes: The haste/speed/integrity thing is all something they house ruled as well. Initiative is done (dex+int+wis mods)/2, then they do passes of 10 till the number hits 0 (so a high rolling initative could theoretically get more turns than a low roller), and haste's primary effect is increasing initiative (no bonus attack, tiny ac/reflex bonus) Integrity is a base 100% number that decreases each time a character can be ressurected by 5% (10% if killed by massive damage or death effect), regenerates 1% per month, or by quest reward. the lower the % gets, the higher stacking penalties you get. Speed rating is a cause all of the weapons have different damage values, and speed is the # you divide by to get how many attacks you get with it. (the only example i remember offhand was that unarmed combat dealt 1d3 damage, or 1d6+1/2 str monk with a speed rating of BAB3) So in otherwords, your storyteller has adapted a d6 Shadowrun mechanic to a game not designed for it. I understand the need for making things make a little more 'real'... and if that is his desire, he should play another game system... Something lots of charts and lots of numbers that have nothing to do with fun, like Rifts... :ahem: ...and just because I love this little smilie and haven't had a chance to use it... :rant:
Corey_Austin 04-02-07, 10:01 PM	And in otherwords, he's applying a metagame idea to inhibit roleplaying... :rolleyes: More to prevent the kind of stuff that goes on in the "broken challenges" on the CO boards. Everything is allowed beyond eberron, but you're expected to show actual dedication and interest in the classes you pick rather than using them as stepping stones to the next "uber combo". And I didn't say "shadowrun initiative" because I am posting on a d20 board, and I don't expect people to know it. We've done initiative passes before, and it usually works out just fine with a minor tinker to 3-4 feats/class abilities (Basically anything that gives a bonus to initiative is dropped to a flat +1 bonus). Your rant was pretty pointless, because all you really did was express your own disinterest in doing anything out of the norm. Or maybe by your contempt with Rifts and charts I can assume you have poor basic math skills. The d20 system isn't perfect by any means, nothing is wrong with tinkering a bit to find what works for your group or to freshen things up, especially when said group knows as much about the game as the DM does.
Corey_Austin 04-02-07, 10:03 PM	The weapon speed ratings are new though, I'm not sure how that is going to turn out. I think the everquest d20 game did something similar.
NoldorForce 04-02-07, 10:19 PM	Regardless, spell-like abilities can be used to qualify for crafting feats. Most if not all of them require caster levels, and Complete Arcane implies that those generated from SLAs can be used to meet those prerequisites. Getting access to a SLA can probably be done using a lesser version of a template that grants SLAs, or something like a Planetouched or Feytouched. Aasimar and tieflings, for instance, each have a single SLA whose caster level is equal to your class levels. (This sort of thing is how I'd managed to get an Akashic//Chameleon to qualify for item creation feats, using one SLA from Akashic.) And since the houserules explicitly require a +1 LA race...
liquidhypnotic 04-27-07, 12:13 AM	Well, it said LA limit of 1.