Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Asilomar 04-27-07, 05:38 PM	I have a player who wants my Wizard to imbue his sword with a sleep spell, meaning that should he hit someone with it, and they fail their save, they fall asleep. He feels that would satisfy the "Drop" part of the cleave feat and allow him to take another attack. Would this work? Could he cleave if the victem failed their save? Is there a better spell for this?
Nom 04-27-07, 05:54 PM	I have a player who wants my Wizard to imbue his sword with a sleep spell, meaning that should he hit someone with it, and they fail their save, they fall asleep. He feels that would satisfy the "Drop" part of the cleave feat and allow him to take another attack.Yes. The victim has been eliminated as a threat, which is basically what "drop" means. Is there a better spell for this?Of course, by the time he can afford this, a spell with a 4 HD limit wont be much use against serious foes and he could probably kill them as fast just by hitting them.
darkeness 04-27-07, 06:07 PM	From SRD: "If you deal a creature enough damage to make it drop" I think there are some Dm's who would say that it does not satisfy the properties of cleave, because it did not "drop" them by doing damage. Myself, I would probably allow this, making the enhancement a +3 ability and thus making the minimum cost for the weapon 32,000 gold. (+1 weapon with a +3 enhancement = +4 squared times 2,000 gold). Meaning that by the time the fighter could afford it, even with it being created by a party member (16,000 gold & 1,280 xp) it would be nearly useless (max 4 HD DC 12 will save). Even droping the cost down to a +2 enhancement effectivly makes it a wast of money (better to make it a holy weapon imo).
SD 04-27-07, 06:15 PM	DC 11, actually. Only need a stat of 11 to cast sleep, which is a +0 bonus. I would allow this as a +3 bonus that triggers Cleave under SD's Law of Participative Diminishment: The player is in all instances allowed to screw themselves over. That is assuming it's possible. After all, you're basically getting a spell with a one-round (not one standard action) casting time whenever you swing a sword. Can anybody cite precedent for such rapid, free spellcasting?
mugguod 04-27-07, 06:28 PM	Pixies use Sleep arrows that have no HD limit. Where did they get those?
HarlequinHelsing 04-27-07, 06:41 PM	Never-Never Land.
Dragonteuthis 04-27-07, 06:51 PM	The Miniatures handbook introduced a few magic weapon property ideas that I really liked, and I've always wondered why they didn't follow up on these. The closest weapon property is a "Paralytic Burst" which for the cost of a +2 bonus, afflicts the target with a hold monster effect (Will DC 17) whenever the user scores a critical hit. Since, in terms of battlefield control, sleep is actually *deadlier* than the hold person/monster spells (due to it's one save for the entire duration aspect), I would strongly suggest that it be priced more than Paralytic Burst. I'd also say base it off the deep slumber spell, or better yet the symbol of sleep spell.
Potato Weasel 04-28-07, 08:11 AM	Well, for a one off thing, he only needs a spell storing weapon.
Pandaemoni 04-28-07, 08:16 AM	Well, for a one off thing, he only needs a spell storing weapon. None of Sleep, Deep Slumber nor Symbol of Sleep is a "targeted spell," so they can't be stored in a spell storing weapon.
teshen 04-28-07, 02:35 PM	Not to be a killjoy, but I have to agree with darkeness... you have to drop an opponent with damage to get cleave. cleave (klēv) (thanks to dictionary.com) v. tr. 1) To split with or as if with a sharp instrument. 2) To make or accomplish by or as if by cutting: cleave a path through the ice. 3) To pierce or penetrate: The wings cleaved the foggy air. If they drop from a spell, you really haven't split flesh and bone with enough force to carry through to the next target.
temparus2000 04-28-07, 02:47 PM	Not to be a killjoy, but I have to agree with darkeness... you have to drop an opponent with damage to get cleave. cleave (klēv) (thanks to dictionary.com) v. tr. 1) To split with or as if with a sharp instrument. 2) To make or accomplish by or as if by cutting: cleave a path through the ice. 3) To pierce or penetrate: The wings cleaved the foggy air. If they drop from a spell, you really haven't split flesh and bone with enough force to carry through to the next target. Most D+D rules are meant to be interpreted according to the Spirit Of The Law, rather than the Letter Of The Law (at least with most DM's), so I think "dropping" someone with sleep is sufficient to activate cleave even though it dosen't fit the technical definition. As has been stated already, though, it is a waste of money by the time you can afford it.
SD 04-28-07, 07:44 PM	Not to be a killjoy, but I have to agree with darkeness... you have to drop an opponent with damage to get cleave. cleave (klēv) (thanks to dictionary.com) v. tr. 1) To split with or as if with a sharp instrument. 2) To make or accomplish by or as if by cutting: cleave a path through the ice. 3) To pierce or penetrate: The wings cleaved the foggy air. If they drop from a spell, you really haven't split flesh and bone with enough force to carry through to the next target.I'm going to assume this is referenced somewhere in a section in a D&D book that I missed on how not every word ever to exist in a D&D manual is exactly the same as its original definition in all circumstances (Did you know that not all monsters are, in fact, monstrous? I know, it kept me up at night too). I'm also going to assume that you forgot about every spell that does cause physical damage that can split flesh and bones. I'm also going to assume that your house rules state that Cleave can't be used with bludgeoning weapons unless they deal a certain amount of damage and that Cleave can't be triggered by nonlethal damage. If all those are true, excellent and relevant post! If not, then perhaps the original poster is better off asking their DM if this is allowed rather than us bantering about it for a while. Really, we can say whatever we want, but it's all prefaced with "If I could make the decision" anyway.
Asilomar 04-29-07, 01:05 AM	... [superfluous snarky comments ignored] then perhaps the original poster is better off asking their DM if this is allowed rather than us bantering about it for a while. Really, we can say whatever we want, but it's all prefaced with "If I could make the decision" anyway. Yes, I could go the the DM, however, this is the place to go to for information that will either support or overwhelm my position. A good percentage of the comments on this board are opinion, that is what I came looking for. Sure, if there were a ruling that made it cut and dry, I am sure it too would have been provided, but barring that, please, post your opinion of how it would work and leave the snarky bs to other teeny-bopper, leet boards.