Question about Elusive Target [Archive] - Wizards Community

Question about Elusive Target [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DarkWalker
10-14-07, 09:59 PM I was reading up on the Elusive Target feat(complete warrior page 110) & two manuevers requires you to designate a foe to be affected by your dodge feat.
Since you loose your Dodge feat bonus if you get affected by a condiition which makes you loose your dexterity bonus, would you also loose the Elusive Target benifet?

For example, your are fighting the evil Frenzied Berserker and have him as the target of your Elusive Target so you can have the Negate Power Attack manuever but something happens and you loose your Dexterity bonus to your AC. I would not be able to have the advantage of the Dodge feat and by extension, the Elusve Target. So the frenzied berserker would get the full advantages of power attack corret?

Thanks for any answers.
vorpo
10-14-07, 10:48 PM Since you loose your Dodge feat bonus if you get affected by a condiition which makes you loose your dexterity bonus, would you also loose the Elusive Target benifet?
Thanks for any answers.

The way I see it is you don't LOSE Dodge feat, you just don't get benefit thereof. So, work accordingly.
jaelis
10-14-07, 11:33 PM I have to say, if you were in a situation were you lost your dodge bonus to AC, I'd be pretty tempted to say that you couldn't pull off an elusive target maneuver. Just seems like you'd need to be on your toes to do that kind of thing.
yonman
10-15-07, 04:24 PM From SRD:

Prerequisites
Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite.

A character can’t use a feat if he or she has lost a prerequisite.

If at any time you lose a prerequisite, you lose the associated feat. i.e. If you had all feats leading up to Whirlwind Feat and lose the dodge feat because your Dex is decreased below the minimum, you would lose Dodge, Whirlwind, Spring Attack, and Mobility.
jaelis
10-15-07, 05:09 PM But losing the Dodge feat isn't the same as losing your dodge bonus to AC.
yonman
10-15-07, 07:00 PM But losing the Dodge feat isn't the same as losing your dodge bonus to AC.

That is correct, however in his first statement I was under the impression that his dexterity is reduced, therefore he loses the Dodge feat prerequisite.

But in his second example he states that he isn't losing his dexterity and retains the Dodge feats prerequisites, he just loses his dexterity bonus to AC from the dodge feat...not quite sure how but if that was the case he would still get the Elusive Target's feat ability of Negative Power attack.

From feat:

Negate Power Attack: To use this maneuver, you must designate a specific foe to be affected by your Dodge feat

It doesn't state that you have to get the AC bonus, so therefore you just have to designate a target with the feat itself. Again, i'm not sure how that's possible to get a +0 bonus from the feat...
jaelis
10-15-07, 07:24 PM You aren't overlooking the fact that you lose all dodge bonuses to AC when denied your dex bonus to AC, are you?
yonman
10-16-07, 01:06 PM You aren't overlooking the fact that you lose all dodge bonuses to AC when denied your dex bonus to AC, are you?

This has nothing to do with the Negate Power Attack, it specifically says you just target the individual with your Dodge Feat, it has no reference to actually having to get the AC dodge bonus. So, whether you have the bonus or not, as long as you have the individual targeted with the Dodge feat, you get the Negate Power Attack.
jaelis
10-16-07, 01:39 PM Right, but the OP's question is sensible. If you aren't allowed your dodge bonus to AC, does it even make sense to talk about the target of your dodge feat?

I'd tend to agree with you that it does, but I wouldn't say it was crystal clear by the rules.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DarkWalker 10-14-07, 09:59 PM	I was reading up on the Elusive Target feat(complete warrior page 110) & two manuevers requires you to designate a foe to be affected by your dodge feat. Since you loose your Dodge feat bonus if you get affected by a condiition which makes you loose your dexterity bonus, would you also loose the Elusive Target benifet? For example, your are fighting the evil Frenzied Berserker and have him as the target of your Elusive Target so you can have the Negate Power Attack manuever but something happens and you loose your Dexterity bonus to your AC. I would not be able to have the advantage of the Dodge feat and by extension, the Elusve Target. So the frenzied berserker would get the full advantages of power attack corret? Thanks for any answers.
vorpo 10-14-07, 10:48 PM	Since you loose your Dodge feat bonus if you get affected by a condiition which makes you loose your dexterity bonus, would you also loose the Elusive Target benifet? Thanks for any answers. The way I see it is you don't LOSE Dodge feat, you just don't get benefit thereof. So, work accordingly.
jaelis 10-14-07, 11:33 PM	I have to say, if you were in a situation were you lost your dodge bonus to AC, I'd be pretty tempted to say that you couldn't pull off an elusive target maneuver. Just seems like you'd need to be on your toes to do that kind of thing.
yonman 10-15-07, 04:24 PM	From SRD: Prerequisites Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite. A character can’t use a feat if he or she has lost a prerequisite. If at any time you lose a prerequisite, you lose the associated feat. i.e. If you had all feats leading up to Whirlwind Feat and lose the dodge feat because your Dex is decreased below the minimum, you would lose Dodge, Whirlwind, Spring Attack, and Mobility.
jaelis 10-15-07, 05:09 PM	But losing the Dodge feat isn't the same as losing your dodge bonus to AC.
yonman 10-15-07, 07:00 PM	But losing the Dodge feat isn't the same as losing your dodge bonus to AC. That is correct, however in his first statement I was under the impression that his dexterity is reduced, therefore he loses the Dodge feat prerequisite. But in his second example he states that he isn't losing his dexterity and retains the Dodge feats prerequisites, he just loses his dexterity bonus to AC from the dodge feat...not quite sure how but if that was the case he would still get the Elusive Target's feat ability of Negative Power attack. From feat: Negate Power Attack: To use this maneuver, you must designate a specific foe to be affected by your Dodge feat It doesn't state that you have to get the AC bonus, so therefore you just have to designate a target with the feat itself. Again, i'm not sure how that's possible to get a +0 bonus from the feat...
jaelis 10-15-07, 07:24 PM	You aren't overlooking the fact that you lose all dodge bonuses to AC when denied your dex bonus to AC, are you?
yonman 10-16-07, 01:06 PM	You aren't overlooking the fact that you lose all dodge bonuses to AC when denied your dex bonus to AC, are you? This has nothing to do with the Negate Power Attack, it specifically says you just target the individual with your Dodge Feat, it has no reference to actually having to get the AC dodge bonus. So, whether you have the bonus or not, as long as you have the individual targeted with the Dodge feat, you get the Negate Power Attack.
jaelis 10-16-07, 01:39 PM	Right, but the OP's question is sensible. If you aren't allowed your dodge bonus to AC, does it even make sense to talk about the target of your dodge feat? I'd tend to agree with you that it does, but I wouldn't say it was crystal clear by the rules.