Question about undead spellcasters [Archive] - Wizards Community

Question about undead spellcasters [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
seventh_scroll
03-22-08, 02:49 PM I'm building an NPC Cleric to challenge the pcs, and I've noticed that the vampire has some considerable stat increases. I'd like to use this template, but I have a question before I do. As undead, vampires have no constitution scores. That's not really a bad thing in itself, due to the automatic success on fort saves, but no Con means no Con modifier, and no Con mod means taking a hit to my Concentration skill. Do I automatically succeed at this as well?
wonlee76
03-22-08, 03:01 PM I believe undead creatures get to use their charisma modifier for Concentration checks instead of their Constitution modifier. This is not true for all constitution related benefits/checks of course (ie. HP, Fort Saves, etc.).
Shaggy_Shaggs
03-22-08, 03:02 PM Ninja'd.
groveborn
03-22-08, 06:51 PM Having no Constitution score does not mean that one auto-succeeds on Fort saves. What this actually means is that the subject is immune to most effects that require a fort save. There is neither a bonus, nor a penalty to saves that have a score of -.

Spells and effects that can affect objects can also effect undead. Disintegrate, for instance, is an undead destroyer.
Grovel_hits_it_yes
03-23-08, 12:57 PM I believe undead creatures get to use their charisma modifier for Concentration checks instead of their Constitution modifier. This is not true for all constitution related benefits/checks of course (ie. HP, Fort Saves, etc.).

This is the truth! MM page 317.
Drackthor
03-23-08, 05:51 PM Having no Constitution score does not mean that one auto-succeeds on Fort saves. What this actually means is that the subject is immune to most effects that require a fort save. There is neither a bonus, nor a penalty to saves that have a score of -.

Spells and effects that can affect objects can also effect undead. Disintegrate, for instance, is an undead destroyer.

And remember, if someone does use Disintegrate, the Vampire's gaseous form does not kick in, as Disintegrate is not doing HP damage, it is a transmutation spell. It transmutes the target into a pile of dust.

:evillaugh
Sildatorak
03-23-08, 05:59 PM And remember, if someone does use Disintegrate, the Vampire's gaseous form does not kick in, as Disintegrate is not doing HP damage, it is a transmutation spell. It transmutes the target into a pile of dust.

:evillaughThe 3.5 version does hp damage.
groveborn
03-23-08, 09:11 PM And remember, if someone does use Disintegrate, the Vampire's gaseous form does not kick in, as Disintegrate is not doing HP damage, it is a transmutation spell. It transmutes the target into a pile of dust.

:evillaugh

It DOES do HP damage, but upon reaching 0 it turns one into dust. I don't know if Vampires get to not be dust or not. It's kind of a wonky situation.
Legdiwena
03-25-08, 08:16 PM Undead are affected as objects, right?

When used against an object, the ray simply disintegrates as much as one 10-foot cube of nonliving matter.

The hp damage is for creatures.
Shaggy_Shaggs
03-26-08, 02:30 AM Undead are affected as objects, right?

When used against an object, the ray simply disintegrates as much as one 10-foot cube of nonliving matter.

The hp damage is for creatures.

Wrong, undead are affected as creatures. They just ignore Fort save based effects that don't also affect objects. Makes sense -- it keeps the Fort effects that work on them limited to effects that stress the physical structure directly, rather than things that interfere with biological functions they no longer have, such as poison or disease effects.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
seventh_scroll 03-22-08, 02:49 PM	I'm building an NPC Cleric to challenge the pcs, and I've noticed that the vampire has some considerable stat increases. I'd like to use this template, but I have a question before I do. As undead, vampires have no constitution scores. That's not really a bad thing in itself, due to the automatic success on fort saves, but no Con means no Con modifier, and no Con mod means taking a hit to my Concentration skill. Do I automatically succeed at this as well?
wonlee76 03-22-08, 03:01 PM	I believe undead creatures get to use their charisma modifier for Concentration checks instead of their Constitution modifier. This is not true for all constitution related benefits/checks of course (ie. HP, Fort Saves, etc.).
Shaggy_Shaggs 03-22-08, 03:02 PM	Ninja'd.
groveborn 03-22-08, 06:51 PM	Having no Constitution score does not mean that one auto-succeeds on Fort saves. What this actually means is that the subject is immune to most effects that require a fort save. There is neither a bonus, nor a penalty to saves that have a score of -. Spells and effects that can affect objects can also effect undead. Disintegrate, for instance, is an undead destroyer.
Grovel_hits_it_yes 03-23-08, 12:57 PM	I believe undead creatures get to use their charisma modifier for Concentration checks instead of their Constitution modifier. This is not true for all constitution related benefits/checks of course (ie. HP, Fort Saves, etc.). This is the truth! MM page 317.
Drackthor 03-23-08, 05:51 PM	Having no Constitution score does not mean that one auto-succeeds on Fort saves. What this actually means is that the subject is immune to most effects that require a fort save. There is neither a bonus, nor a penalty to saves that have a score of -. Spells and effects that can affect objects can also effect undead. Disintegrate, for instance, is an undead destroyer. And remember, if someone does use Disintegrate, the Vampire's gaseous form does not kick in, as Disintegrate is not doing HP damage, it is a transmutation spell. It transmutes the target into a pile of dust. :evillaugh
Sildatorak 03-23-08, 05:59 PM	And remember, if someone does use Disintegrate, the Vampire's gaseous form does not kick in, as Disintegrate is not doing HP damage, it is a transmutation spell. It transmutes the target into a pile of dust. :evillaughThe 3.5 version does hp damage.
groveborn 03-23-08, 09:11 PM	And remember, if someone does use Disintegrate, the Vampire's gaseous form does not kick in, as Disintegrate is not doing HP damage, it is a transmutation spell. It transmutes the target into a pile of dust. :evillaugh It DOES do HP damage, but upon reaching 0 it turns one into dust. I don't know if Vampires get to not be dust or not. It's kind of a wonky situation.
Legdiwena 03-25-08, 08:16 PM	Undead are affected as objects, right? When used against an object, the ray simply disintegrates as much as one 10-foot cube of nonliving matter. The hp damage is for creatures.
Shaggy_Shaggs 03-26-08, 02:30 AM	Undead are affected as objects, right? When used against an object, the ray simply disintegrates as much as one 10-foot cube of nonliving matter. The hp damage is for creatures. Wrong, undead are affected as creatures. They just ignore Fort save based effects that don't also affect objects. Makes sense -- it keeps the Fort effects that work on them limited to effects that stress the physical structure directly, rather than things that interfere with biological functions they no longer have, such as poison or disease effects.