Post/Author/DateTime	Post
april151978 10-01-07, 02:17 PM	Ok, I understand this may have been asked, so if so, I appologize, but I wanted to get the opinion of others that may have gone through this before with thier wizards... First off, you might want to know the build before making a descicion, so here goes... Specialist wizard (evocation) 1st to 6th level Magic Missile Mage (Dragon magazine and the Dragon Magazine Compendium) for the next 3 levels (7th to 9th) Argent Savant (Complete Arcane) fornext 3 levels (10th to 12th) Alternating levels of Magic Missile Mage and Argent Savant till each is at level 5 (13th to 16th) Wizard (evocation) till 20th (17th to 20th) Ok, a bit more to think about... Focus is mostly in force spells (mostly abjuration and evocation) I am avoiding the "classic" evocation spells (Fireball, Lightning Bolt, etc.) Feats: Coliegate Wizard, Arcane Manipulation, etc Want to eventualy get Invisible Needle feat (Complete Mage) Now, someone said I should get Spell Focus (evocation) and Greater Spell Focus (evocation), but I think it would be more beneficial to get intelligence up over taking two feats for a +2 DC to my spells... So, for those that have been there, which would be more beneficial in the long run?...
RobbyPants 10-01-07, 05:07 PM	Just a couple of pointers on classes if you want more abilities: If you're playing a specialist wizard, strongly consider taking levels of the Master Specialist PrC from Complete Mage. It's a nice solid, full-casting PrC that's 10 levels. You can also get into it by 4th level (you qualify at 3rd, and can have your 1st PrC level at 4th). Now, since you have most of your build all planned out, I'd recommend switching 4th - 6th level of wizard out for Master Specialist 1 - 3, and the 17th - 20th level of of your build as well with four more Master Specialist levels. I don't know anything about Magic Missile Mage, so I can't comment there, although I have a good idea what it does ;). If you're looking for another way to increase your force AC, consider taking five levels in Abjurant Champion (also from Complete Mage). By high level, it's easy to qualify for, and it gives full casting, full BAB, and d10 hit dice. In addition, you add your class level (it's a 5 level PrC) to AC for any abjuration spell, such as Shield. +9 Shield AC for a 1st level spell slot is nice! Now, it won't work for Mage Armor (as it's Conjuration), but I think Argent Savant boosts that for you. Which two schools are you dropping to be a specialist? Typically I drop Enchantment and Evocation, but that won't work too well for you being an Evocer, now will it? :P I'd still strongly consider dropping Enchantment. I guess my 2nd best choice would be Necromancy, or maybe (a strong maybe) Illusion. Under no circumstances would I drop Transmutation, or Conjuration, and Abjuration is too good to consider for most builds as well. So again, I guess my vote would be for Enchantment and Necromancy. As for your feat question, if you want to go the Master Specialist route, I think you need Spell Focus, but I don't remember about Greater Spell Focus (it might be a bonus feat granted by the class). If not, then I guess the question is still open. Now, the ultimatum you posted was raising your Int instead of spending two feats. How exactly will you do that? Are you pretty tight on feats for your build? If you're looking for others, once you get to mid/high level, feats like Empower Spell and Maximize Spell might be fun for your missiles. If most of your evocation spells don't have a save anyway, I guess I don't see much point in the Spell Focus feats. Hope that helps. :D
StruckingFuggle 10-01-07, 06:52 PM	Practiced Spellcaster. I forget where it's from, but replacing the two caster levels you lose is a pretty good idea ... the feat index should list the book.
april151978 10-02-07, 09:01 AM	Actually RobbyPants, I dropped Necromancy and Illusion - just didn't fit the build... As for feats, here is what I have... Free (Wizard) - Scribe Scroll Bonus (Human) - Combat Casting Bonus (Flaw: Forlorn) - Collegiate Wizard (Complete Arcane) Bonus (Flaw: Vulnerable) - Master Linguist 1st - Arcane Manipulation (Faerun book, don't remember which) 3rd - Arcane Thesis [Magic Missile] 5th (Wizard bonus) - Still Spell (or Silent Spell?) 6th - Spellcasting Prodigy (Faerun book, don't remember which) 9th - Residual Metamagic (Complete Mage) 12th - Invisible Needle (Complete Mage) 15th - Retributive Spell (Complete Mage) 18th - Magic Disruption (Complete Mage) 20th (Wizard 10) - ??? Any thoughts now?...
runestar 10-02-07, 09:09 AM	Now, someone said I should get Spell Focus (evocation) and Greater Spell Focus (evocation), but I think it would be more beneficial to get intelligence up over taking two feats for a +2 DC to my spells... Unless you are somehow taking feats which can boost your int, I don't see how they are mutually exclusive...:P
TygerTyger 10-02-07, 10:22 AM	You might want to reconsider the Combat Casting feat... it's really not worth it. If you want a bonus to your Concentration checks, takes Skill Focus: Concentration instead, that way you get +3 to every Concentration check you ever make, as opposed to a +4 in very limited circumstances. At the end of the day, making the roll for casting defensively is pretty easy. Heck, DC 16 for a level one spell... at level 1, assuming a bonus to CON, you beat that half the time anyway. By the time you hit level 10ish, you have 13 ranks in the skill, plus a CON bonus (say +2), and the DC for your highest level spell is only 20. So you are making it on a 5 or better. Add in a +5 Concentration magic item (dirt cheap for a level 5 character, let alone a level 10) and you can't fail. Is that worth a feat? Most don't think so.
april151978 10-02-07, 10:27 AM	I suppose you are right TygerTyger, as I do also have a great CON score, so I might be able to take that feat out...
RobbyPants 10-02-07, 10:29 AM	You might want to reconsider the Combat Casting feat... it's really not worth it. If you want a bonus to your Concentration checks, takes Skill Focus: Concentration instead, that way you get +3 to every Concentration check you ever make, as opposed to a +4 in very limited circumstances. At the end of the day, making the roll for casting defensively is pretty easy. Heck, DC 16 for a level one spell... at level 1, assuming a bonus to CON, you beat that half the time anyway. By the time you hit level 10ish, you have 13 ranks in the skill, plus a CON bonus (say +2), and the DC for your highest level spell is only 20. So you are making it on a 5 or better. Add in a +5 Concentration magic item (dirt cheap for a level 5 character, let alone a level 10) and you can't fail. Is that worth a feat? Most don't think so. Yeah, that's one nice thing about the system is that the Concentration DC for your highest level spell only increases every other level, but your ranks in Concentration increase every level. I do agree that generally speaking, Combat Casting isn't all that solid of a feat. I would take it, however, if I were going to play an Abjurant Champion (awesome class) as it's a prereq.
Puca 10-02-07, 11:14 AM	Like runestar said, bumping up your Int is something you do no matter what and has no effect on whether or not you can or cannot take Spell Focus. Evocation is typically a good school to have Spell Focus. Many, many of its spells offer a save and so a high DC is important. But you are specializing in force, and a lot of them dont. Look at your "go to" spells and see how many will actually benefit from boosted DCs. As for feats, here is what I have... Free (Wizard) - Scribe Scroll Bonus (Human) - Combat CastingAs already said, Combat Casting is a bit of a waste. Bonus (Flaw: Forlorn) - Collegiate Wizard (Complete Arcane)Dont get me wrong. I consider this to be one of the best wizard feats out there. Increasing your spellbook is what you do. BUT you are very, very specialized. Not only excluding 2 schools entirely, but voluntarily skipping out on a whole bunch of spells within your chosen school. Im not saying dont take it, I am saying do the math and see if you really want to. It is still an objectively valuable feat, but you have to compare it to the opportunity costs when you have all those other feats out there. Also, there is a variant in CM that lets you get more bonus spells by giving up a third school. Flavor-wise, this might be a good way to go. Check it out. Bonus (Flaw: Vulnerable) - Master LinguistI know nothing of this feat. I wonder why you want to be a better linguist though? You dont talk. Youre an evoker: you blow up. 1st - Arcane Manipulation (Faerun book, don't remember which)Lost Empires. Focused as you are on low level spells (Magic Missile) this isnt bad. 3rd - Arcane Thesis [Magic Missile]Not bad. 6th - Spellcasting Prodigy (Faerun book, don't remember which)Not bad. 9th - Residual Metamagic (Complete Mage)Good choice when using the same spell over and over. Though, considering your build, you might want to get Craft Wand for many many uses of Magic Missile. 12th - Invisible Needle (Complete Mage)The actual needles sort of suck, but the boost to caster-level is worth it. 15th - Retributive Spell (Complete Mage)You can achieve this same effect with Craft Contingency (CA) and get a lot more out of it. 18th - Magic Disruption (Complete Mage)At level 18, you could force opposing casters to make a DC 24 concentration check. But arent they all going to make this by this level? At level 18 Id most certainly have a +23 mod to my Concentration checks. So, sort of useless. Any thoughts now?...Couple big ones. You have Arcane Thesis and some other feats that really work for metamagic, but no metamagic. Except for Retributive Spell, which isnt that great in the first place. You want things like Empower, Maximize, Twin, Quicken. Metamagic School Focus works well if you get these other ones too. You are the Magic Missile master: you should be dropping 15 empowered missiles a round at a minimum. Lastly SR. You are vulnerable to SR. At high levels, everything has SR and youre going to feel like a real git if your awesome missiles do nothing every other round because you rolled crap. This is the only reason I didnt bash Invisible Needle. It increases your caster-level for your missiles. Spell Penetration is worth it, but Arcane Mastery is really a good choice. With that and some items and spells that bump caster-level, you should have few problems with most things at and a little above your CR.
Nightshade 10-02-07, 11:36 AM	I think Spellcasting Prodigy can only be taken at 1st level.
RobbyPants 10-02-07, 12:01 PM	Actually RobbyPants, I dropped Necromancy and Illusion - just didn't fit the build... As long as you're dropping Illusion and Necromancy, consider playing a Focused Specialist variant from PHBII. Basically, you drop a 3rd school, and you lose one general spell slot per spell level, but you gain an additional two slots for your chosen school. The end result is you have a total of three evocation-only slots at the cost of three barred schools, and one general-slot per spell level. Going this route, I would also dump Enchantment as it's largely redundant. At first level, you would have (assuming an Int of 12+ ;)) one general slot (from your Int bonus) and three evocation slots. If you really want to focus on Magic Missiles and the like, this seems like a good way to go. As an alternate class feature, it doesn't require any wierd multiclassing or anything, and with Enchantment being largely redundant, it's one of those "you gain everything and lose nothing" situations. Edit: Puca already beat me to the suggestion.
april151978 10-02-07, 12:15 PM	Like runestar said, bumping up your Int is something you do no matter what and has no effect on whether or not you can or cannot take Spell Focus. Limited feats, want the most out of my specialty without going complete munchkin... Want style with my power... Evocation is typically a good school to have Spell Focus. Many, many of its spells offer a save and so a high DC is important. But you are specializing in force, and a lot of them dont. Look at your "go to" spells and see how many will actually benefit from boosted DCs. True enough, I noticed less saves for force related spells... As already said, Combat Casting is a bit of a waste. Yeah, I think I will get rid of it... Thanks all on this one... Dont get me wrong. I consider this to be one of the best wizard feats out there. Increasing your spellbook is what you do. BUT you are very, very specialized. Not only excluding 2 schools entirely, but voluntarily skipping out on a whole bunch of spells within your chosen school. Im not saying dont take it, I am saying do the math and see if you really want to. It is still an objectively valuable feat, but you have to compare it to the opportunity costs when you have all those other feats out there. This is to keep my spellbooks costs down a bit, and it has significantly, and will continue to with the number of spell sources I can use (PHB 3.5, PHB II, Spell Compendium, Races books, Complete books, etc.)... Also, there is a variant in CM that lets you get more bonus spells by giving up a third school. Flavor-wise, this might be a good way to go. Check it out. Again, a possibiltiy... I have yet to take a deeper look at the class, and I might look into this... I know nothing of this feat. I wonder why you want to be a better linguist though? You dont talk. Youre an evoker: you blow up. This goes to my character, not my stats... My character has Profession (scribe) as a skill, and the DM has already said that with the number of languages I can speak at 6th level (11, +1 per level after 6th) that I would be in high demand and would be able to set my price for the right things... Again, flavor over stats... Lost Empires. Focused as you are on low level spells (Magic Missile) this isnt bad. Not bad. Not bad. Thanks, thanks, and thanks... Good choice when using the same spell over and over. Though, considering your build, you might want to get Craft Wand for many many uses of Magic Missile. Think Scribe Scroll with this and you see the power it can do... For those that have access to and have read the magic missile mage, the part of this feat that talkes about all effects based on how you would cast it makes it worth a lot... The actual needles sort of suck, but the boost to caster-level is worth it. You can achieve this same effect with Craft Contingency (CA) and get a lot more out of it. True, they are not great, but it is a combat option that doesn't take away a spell by using it round after round... At level 18, you could force opposing casters to make a DC 24 concentration check. But arent they all going to make this by this level? At level 18 Id most certainly have a +23 mod to my Concentration checks. So, sort of useless. Will have to look into this... Maybe I miss read it... Any replacement suggestions?... Couple big ones. You have Arcane Thesis and some other feats that really work for metamagic, but no metamagic. Except for Retributive Spell, which isnt that great in the first place. You want things like Empower, Maximize, Twin, Quicken. Metamagic School Focus works well if you get these other ones too. I forgot to add Still Spell (or Silent Spell, can't remember) for my 5th level wizard feat... Mixed with the abilities of the Magic Missle Mage, I cast all Magic Missiles as still and silent spells, but still at a 1st level slot... You are the Magic Missile master: you should be dropping 15 empowered missiles a round at a minimum. Lastly SR. You are vulnerable to SR. So true... Might take spell penetration and the greater version... Or, do you know of something else that might work better?... At high levels, everything has SR and youre going to feel like a real git if your awesome missiles do nothing every other round because you rolled crap. This is the only reason I didnt bash Invisible Needle. It increases your caster-level for your missiles. Spell Penetration is worth it, but Arcane Mastery is really a good choice. With that and some items and spells that bump caster-level, you should have few problems with most things at and a little above your CR. True again... I will take all this into consideration...
StruckingFuggle 10-02-07, 12:37 PM	Out of curiosity, where is the Forlorn flaw from, and what does it do?
Puca 10-02-07, 12:46 PM	This is to keep my spellbooks costs down a bit, and it has significantly, and will continue to with the number of spell sources I can use (PHB 3.5, PHB II, Spell Compendium, Races books, Complete books, etc.)...I know, and for most other wizards, Id call this a no-brainer, but you will use fewer spells than most because you are so focused on a few. Yes, great feat, but you only have so many. Just something to consider. This goes to my character, not my stats... My character has Profession (scribe) as a skill, and the DM has already said that with the number of languages I can speak at 6th level (11, +1 per level after 6th) that I would be in high demand and would be able to set my price for the right things... Flavor, I get. But you are a BMF, not a librarians assistant. Use Amanuensis and Tongues. :) Just kidding. Flavor is the king. Think Scribe Scroll with this and you see the power it can doI only meant that wands are cheaper in the long run than scrolls. Easier to use as well. True, they are not great, but it is a combat option that doesn't take away a spell by using it round after round...Thing is, they arent as good as say, Magic Missile. If you are holding a ninth-level spell in reserve, well, for one thing you arent using an awesome level-nine spell and instead are rolling ranged touch (nope, full AC) attacks for low damage. One force needle will average 22.5 damage. One empowered Magic Missile will always hit, average ~26 points of damage, and is only a second-level spell. Its worth it for the boost to caster-level. Thats it. Will have to look into this... Maybe I miss read it... Any replacement suggestions?...Practiced Spell Caster is probably your best option. You lost at least one level to Argent Savant. Might be a couple more. Gotta maintain caster level. Craft Contingency is great: you can set contingencies to deal damage when you take a certain type or specific sort of damage. And hook up with the party healer to set contingent healing spells. Set up contingencies to teleport you to safety when incapacitated. And, they are items, so they cant be dispelled and dont cut into your daily casting. And you can craft contingencies on you familiar, on your allies. Awesome feat. Its like the spell on crack. I forgot to add Still Spell (or Silent Spell, can't remember) for my 5th level wizard feat... Mixed with the abilities of the Magic Missle Mage, I cast all Magic Missiles as still and silent spells, but still at a 1st level slot...These are great. Still Spell will save your life. BUT: you are a guy who deals direct damage. That is a hard way to win. The way to do this is to up your direct damage to the stratosphere. That means casting more spells per round (Quicken, Twin) and making them more powerful when you do cast them (Empower, Maximize.) So true... Might take spell penetration and the greater version... Or, do you know of something else that might work better?...Arcane Mastery lets you take 10 on SR and other caster-level checks. Using it with things to boost caster-level is pretty reliable. It is also very “predictable.” You will know exactly what SR you can beat every time. I would recommend this feat in conjunction with items that help boost SR and others that up caster-level.
april151978 10-03-07, 02:52 PM	I know, and for most other wizards, Id call this a no-brainer, but you will use fewer spells than most because you are so focused on a few. Yes, great feat, but you only have so many. Just something to consider. Again, there is a significant cost I wanted to ignore in both character build (like more money for items like a Headband of Intellect) and in the future... I want this character to limit his costs whenever possible; Maybe I should have played a Mindbender... Flavor, I get. But you are a BMF, not a librarians assistant. Use Amanuensis and Tongues. :) Just kidding. Flavor is the king. :D Thank you, from a true role-player to another... I only meant that wands are cheaper in the long run than scrolls. Easier to use as well. Cheaper than a level one, 1st caster level scroll of magic missile?... Are you sure?... Money is the issue, not time... Thing is, they arent as good as say, Magic Missile. If you are holding a ninth-level spell in reserve, well, for one thing you arent using an awesome level-nine spell and instead are rolling ranged touch (nope, full AC) attacks for low damage. One force needle will average 22.5 damage. One empowered Magic Missile will always hit, average ~26 points of damage, and is only a second-level spell. Its worth it for the boost to caster-level. Thats it. I guess I should explain this more... I will never hold a spell when the cards are on the table, but for casual encounters and "mopping-up" is the issue, I would rather have this access than to use a spell for this... And yes, the caster level bonus is a great thing to get for it... Practiced Spell Caster is probably your best option. You lost at least one level to Argent Savant. Might be a couple more. Gotta maintain caster level. Both Magic Missile Mage and the Argent Savant loose one caster level at level one of both PrCs (5 levels each), but this Arcane Thesis, my magic missiles are always going to be cast at my HD for caster level, unless I take another PrC that looses a caster level (not looking like it is going to happen)... Craft Contingency is great: you can set contingencies to deal damage when you take a certain type or specific sort of damage. And hook up with the party healer to set contingent healing spells. Set up contingencies to teleport you to safety when incapacitated. And, they are items, so they cant be dispelled and dont cut into your daily casting. And you can craft contingencies on you familiar, on your allies. Awesome feat. Its like the spell on crack. Will have to look into... These are great. Still Spell will save your life. The Magic Missile Mage class gains one (still or silent) for all magic missiles they cast, so I grabed the other... With Arcane Thesis, all magic missiles I cast are stilled and silent, but still are 1st level spells... This makes magic missile my primary spell... BUT: you are a guy who deals direct damage. That is a hard way to win. The way to do this is to up your direct damage to the stratosphere. That means casting more spells per round (Quicken, Twin) and making them more powerful when you do cast them (Empower, Maximize.) I had, and still do consider taking Twin Spell at a later level... This would be fitting to my character, as I will be casting magic missile for 6 or 7 missiles (yes, 6 or 7; part of the benefit of the Magic Missile Mage Prc) per one casting, and gaining a point of damage per missile (Argent Savant) that I cast, so it will be potent for a 1st level spell... Arcane Mastery lets you take 10 on SR and other caster-level checks. Using it with things to boost caster-level is pretty reliable. It is also very “predictable.” You will know exactly what SR you can beat every time. I would recommend this feat in conjunction with items that help boost SR and others that up caster-level. Again, I wil have to look into this...
april151978 10-03-07, 02:53 PM	Out of curiosity, where is the Forlorn flaw from, and what does it do? Dragon magazine (the number escapes me at this time), but I am not sure that I can tell you what it does or not due to license issues... I will get back to you on the specific issue so you might be able to find someone who has it and look it up...
RobbyPants 10-03-07, 03:14 PM	Dragon magazine (the number escapes me at this time), but I am not sure that I can tell you what it does or not due to license issues... I will get back to you on the specific issue so you might be able to find someone who has it and look it up... Differnt people believe different things about the Copywrite laws. Still, you can post the gist of what it does without actually posting the feat itself. An example might be like telling someone that Power Attack allows a strong character to sacrifice accuracy for damage. The basic idea behind the feat is conveyed without actually posting anything specific. I have a feeling that's what StruckingFuggle is after.
Puca 10-03-07, 04:10 PM	Cheaper than a level one, 1st caster level scroll of magic missile?... Are you sure?... Money is the issue, not time...Base cost of a level-one wand is 15 gp per charge. Base cost of a scroll is 25. It is only slightly more expensive to buy the wands over crafting the scrolls, and you get the benefits of spell-trigger over spell-completion to boot. The sheer number of Magic Missile you may use is what might make crafting the wands yourself a economically justified decision. Both Magic Missile Mage and the Argent Savant loose one caster level at level one of both PrCs (5 levels each), but this Arcane Thesis, my magic missiles are always going to be cast at my HD for caster level, unless I take another PrC that looses a caster level (not looking like it is going to happen)...Even two caster-levels down is big: opposing casters will be able to dispel your buffs more easily, while you will have a harder time taking down theirs. SR should be beatable for your missiles, but youve lots of other spells. What if the guy has a Shield spell? It is still worth it. Another important thing about Practiced Spellcaster: it is +4 to caster-level capped by your hit dice, but, you add that +4 when it is most convenient for you. You are, lets say, 12th level, but have a caster-level of 10 due to multiclassing/PrCs. You take Practiced Spellcaster, and it is up to 12. You cast your Arcane Thesis spell, and it is at 14. It isnt still capped at your hit dice. You added Practiced first. Cap in place, Then added the Thesis boost. If you have the reserve feat on top of this, it is at 15. Add Arcane Mastery, you penetrate SR 25 and below automatically, and that beats a significant percentage, if not majority of the creatures at and even some above your ECL. (Hell, a Balor is CR 20 and has SR 28.) I had, and still do consider taking Twin Spell at a later level... This would be fitting to my character, as I will be casting magic missile for 6 or 7 missiles (yes, 6 or 7; part of the benefit of the Magic Missile Mage Prc) per one casting, and gaining a point of damage per missile (Argent Savant) that I cast, so it will be potent for a 1st level spell...Im not much of an optimizer; theyll laugh if they read this, but at level 12/10, you can have the feats Practiced Spellcaster, Arcane Mastery, Arcane Thesis, Metamagic School Focus (evocation,) Empower Spell, Quicken Spell, and Twin Spell. Thats three sets of empowered missiles in a single round, 6 or seven missiles a set, and with an extra +1 to each die. 120 points of autohit, laugh at SR, who cares if youre incorporeal damage in one round seems pretty good to me.
april151978 10-04-07, 09:02 AM	Differnt people believe different things about the Copywrite laws. Still, you can post the gist of what it does without actually posting the feat itself. An example might be like telling someone that Power Attack allows a strong character to sacrifice accuracy for damage. The basic idea behind the feat is conveyed without actually posting anything specific. I have a feeling that's what StruckingFuggle is after. The problem is no matter how I slice it, I give the whole feat away by giving you the gist of it... I will give the exact issue number tommorow, but that is all I can give in clear concience...
Puca 10-04-07, 10:43 AM	Dragon 333 It has to do with not having a familiar any more.
april151978 10-04-07, 11:05 AM	Base cost of a level-one wand is 15 gp per charge. Base cost of a scroll is 25. It is only slightly more expensive to buy the wands over crafting the scrolls, and you get the benefits of spell-trigger over spell-completion to boot. The sheer number of Magic Missile you may use is what might make crafting the wands yourself a economically justified decision. Ok, you got me there, but is it going to be worth the feat later; that is the ultimate question... Even two caster-levels down is big: opposing casters will be able to dispel your buffs more easily, while you will have a harder time taking down theirs. SR should be beatable for your missiles, but youve lots of other spells. What if the guy has a Shield spell? It is still worth it. Another important thing about Practiced Spellcaster: it is +4 to caster-level capped by your hit dice, but, you add that +4 when it is most convenient for you. You are, lets say, 12th level, but have a caster-level of 10 due to multiclassing/PrCs. You take Practiced Spellcaster, and it is up to 12. You cast your Arcane Thesis spell, and it is at 14. It isnt still capped at your hit dice. You added Practiced first. Cap in place, Then added the Thesis boost. If you have the reserve feat on top of this, it is at 15. Add Arcane Mastery, you penetrate SR 25 and below automatically, and that beats a significant percentage, if not majority of the creatures at and even some above your ECL. (Hell, a Balor is CR 20 and has SR 28.) Ok, I see your point there... I may have to re-tool this character a bit if I want to avoid this... Im not much of an optimizer; theyll laugh if they read this, but at level 12/10, you can have the feats Practiced Spellcaster, Arcane Mastery, Arcane Thesis, Metamagic School Focus (evocation,) Empower Spell, Quicken Spell, and Twin Spell. Thats three sets of empowered missiles in a single round, 6 or seven missiles a set, and with an extra +1 to each die. 120 points of autohit, laugh at SR, who cares if youre incorporeal damage in one round seems pretty good to me. Heavy... I suppose I could do that, but I would have to do a complete re-tool of the character, though it might be worth it...
Merestil Haye 10-04-07, 04:02 PM	As for feats, here is what I have... Free (Wizard) - Scribe Scroll Bonus (Human) - Combat Casting Bonus (Flaw: Forlorn) - Collegiate Wizard (Complete Arcane) Bonus (Flaw: Vulnerable) - Master Linguist 1st - Arcane Manipulation (Faerun book, don't remember which)Not going to say much on the first level feats, except to comment that the only reason to take Combat Casting is to get into Abjurant Champion, and you don't really have room for that. 3rd - Arcane Thesis [Magic Missile]Single-spell focussed? Probably good, but you do know it decreases the total cost of metamagic by 1, not 1 per feat, right? 5th (Wizard bonus) - Still Spell (or Silent Spell?)Reviewing Master Specialist, it doesn't work well with your plans. You do need to think about getting some more metamagic feats. Also remember that you can take a Reserve feat instead of item crafting or metamagic with your Wizard bonus feat slots, should you so wish. 6th - Spellcasting Prodigy (Faerun book, don't remember which)Sorry, but Nightshade is right. You may only select the Spellcasting Prodigy feat at first level. It says so explicitly in the feat description (PGtF p44). 9th - Residual Metamagic (Complete Mage)This allows two manoevres. You can take advantage of one, but not the other. If you had Quicken and Empower, then in round 1 you could fire a Quickened Empowered MM, then in round 2 a Quickened MM from a 1st level slot and an Empowered one from a 2nd, then a Quickened one from a 4th and an Empowered one from a 1st, and so on. 12th - Invisible Needle (Complete Mage)I understand why you're getting this, but I think it works better for an Arcane Trickster. Beating regular AC can be a bit problematic for a character with your BAB. What it does have going for it is that as a Supernatural ability, you neither provoke AoOs for using it nor have to overcome SR. 15th - Retributive Spell (Complete Mage)Not really keen on this one. Learn Fire Shield instead. Free the feat slot for a feat that will actually do something. 18th - Magic Disruption (Complete Mage)Puca's right. No wizard is going to fail a DC24 Concentration check unless he's seriously poor in the Con department, and that's the best you can do as far as DCs go. 20th (Wizard 10) - ???The feats I think you need to take are Quicken, Empower and Twin Spell. I'm not so keen on Maximise because it does less for MM than Empower, and costs more in terms of spell levels. I'd also suggest Dimensional Jaunt. Supernatural ability to teleport at will with no components. Just keep one Greater Teleport back and that's excellent battlefield mobility not to mention a get-out-of-grapple-free card.
EonEienkaze 10-04-07, 07:48 PM	Is Magic Missile Mage the same as Force Missile Mage (Dragon #328)? If so, Combat Casting is required for the class.
april151978 10-05-07, 10:01 AM	Not going to say much on the first level feats, except to comment that the only reason to take Combat Casting is to get into Abjurant Champion, and you don't really have room for that. Might also be the requirement for the class, as EonEienkaze said... Single-spell focussed? Probably good, but you do know it decreases the total cost of metamagic by 1, not 1 per feat, right? Yeah, but that is the flavor of the character... Arcane Thesis has more to do with this build than most think... Reviewing Master Specialist, it doesn't work well with your plans. You do need to think about getting some more metamagic feats. Also remember that you can take a Reserve feat instead of item crafting or metamagic with your Wizard bonus feat slots, should you so wish. Ok, but why do I need to have more metamagic feats?... I know I could be this destructive force of muchkinisim, but that is not what I am going for... I want to be good at what my charcter does (magic missile, with other force effects) and that is about it... That is why I have stayed away from evocation spells like Fireball and Lightning Bolt... Sorry, but Nightshade is right. You may only select the Spellcasting Prodigy feat at first level. It says so explicitly in the feat description (PGtF p44). Ok, then switch with one of the other feats and place it at 1st level... Happy now?... This allows two manoevres. You can take advantage of one, but not the other. If you had Quicken and Empower, then in round 1 you could fire a Quickened Empowered MM, then in round 2 a Quickened MM from a 1st level slot and an Empowered one from a 2nd, then a Quickened one from a 4th and an Empowered one from a 1st, and so on. Actually, I can take advantage of it, I just don't know how or when... If I never qualify for the 2nd ability, that is fine, as the 1st ability sets my character up for the flavor of my character - magic missiles gallore... And as for the comment about the shield spell, I believe there is an ability in the PrC that allows me to bypass the classic shield stop, but then again, I will have other force spells to relly on... Also, incorporeal creatures are not able to dodge the effects of my spells where a fireball slinger would be in trouble a bit for this... Again, there is a certain flavor to this character that I think a few here don't understand, but I will continue to listen and take your comments into consideration... I understand why you're getting this, but I think it works better for an Arcane Trickster. Beating regular AC can be a bit problematic for a character with your BAB. What it does have going for it is that as a Supernatural ability, you neither provoke AoOs for using it nor have to overcome SR. Again, I know this is far from perfect, but there is a use to it, even if there will be times it might not be that great... Yes, the caster level increase is good too, so it serves more than one purpose... Not really keen on this one. Learn Fire Shield instead. Free the feat slot for a feat that will actually do something. Yeah, I will more than likely switch that out for Craft Contingent Spell... Puca's right. No wizard is going to fail a DC24 Concentration check unless he's seriously poor in the Con department, and that's the best you can do as far as DCs go. Yeah, I know... He was also right on the save thing; most force spells give no save... The feats I think you need to take are Quicken, Empower and Twin Spell. I'm not so keen on Maximise because it does less for MM than Empower, and costs more in terms of spell levels. True for a munchkin, but this charcter is built for flavor, not munchkin wet dreams... There is something to be said for style for a memorable character that can't be beat by a "perfect" wizard, which doesn't exist... I'd also suggest Dimensional Jaunt. Supernatural ability to teleport at will with no components. Just keep one Greater Teleport back and that's excellent battlefield mobility not to mention a get-out-of-grapple-free card. I actually looked at that one, and I might just have to fit it in... That actually would be in fitting with this character...
april151978 10-05-07, 10:03 AM	Another odd question a friend of mine brought up about the Arcane Thesis feat (he is also another wizard in the same party); the -1 to the level of all metamagic modifiers for that spell, does it apply to each seporatly, or does it only apply once for all metamagic applied to the spell?...
runestar 10-05-07, 10:21 AM	the -1 to the level of all metamagic modifiers for that spell, does it apply to each seporatly, or does it only apply once for all metamagic applied to the spell?... The FAQ has clarified that it only applies once, regardless of how many metamagic feats you apply.:)
Puca 10-05-07, 11:14 AM	True for a munchkin, but this charcter is built for flavor, not munchkin wet dreams... There is something to be said for style for a memorable character that can't be beat by a "perfect" wizard, which doesn't exist...Be careful with the word "munchkin." I dont think anyone is giving advice for being some uber Pun-punesque thing. But you are going primarily direct damage, and direct damage casters face a hard situation. In my experience at least, casters who can do like "200 pts of damage per round" end up in practice doing only like 50 when its all said and done. Those who can only do 50, end up doing like 5. RP is very very important, but it is no fun to feel like a fifth-wheel to your party either.
april151978 10-05-07, 12:36 PM	Be careful with the word "munchkin." I dont think anyone is giving advice for being some uber Pun-punesque thing. But you are going primarily direct damage, and direct damage casters face a hard situation. In my experience at least, casters who can do like "200 pts of damage per round" end up in practice doing only like 50 when its all said and done. Those who can only do 50, end up doing like 5. RP is very very important, but it is no fun to feel like a fifth-wheel to your party either. I use the word munchkin due to people seeming to give me advice on how to maximize my damage with spells... That is fine, but I am not out to do 200+ damage a round (most things don't survive that for one hit, so why be able to do it for multiple hits per round?), but rather to focus my main spell(s) with the greatest efficiency and truth to the concept... Magic Missile will not be my only 1st level spell, and I will not be taking multiple metamagic feats to fill up all (or almost all) my spell slots with some form of the Magic Missile spell adjusted for metamagic... If I wanted to do that, I could have taken Heighten Spell and just filled in Magic Missile 1st to 9th... I am not saying that the topics and advice given here has been bad, but rather it is miss-focused on what I am looking for in the character concept... There is a reason I am not giving up the Master Linguist feat; it is central to the character as a whole, who spends his spare time making money as a translator (without spell; sometimes useful if you think about it from a role-playing perspective) and a scribe (again, without magic)... I want power, but not absolute... I want people to fear my character for his proficiency with the spell of Magic Missile, but it is not the only spell I will use... I have taken other spells, but the 4 free spells I get to write in my book per level are central to what I do, what I want to do, and what I might have to do with this character... As for the 5th wheel idea, I don't want to come off as the classic evoker, but rather reserved untill there is no real sollution to the problem but aggression; but if it goes to aggression, I don't want my robes down around my ankles for combat... Range is key, and force spells are more versitile than some give credit to them for... Again, no offense meant or given, but the direction of some people seems to me to be more toward maximizing me as a general (or universal) evoker, not a specialized one (and I don't mean a "blaster" or "sniper" like in the Complete Mage)... I thank you, so please continue...
april151978 10-05-07, 07:02 PM	:bigeyes: Ok, I wan informed the word "munchkin" is now a derogatory word, so I appologize, despite not knowing it was such...
runestar 10-05-07, 10:14 PM	I use the word munchkin due to people seeming to give me advice on how to maximize my damage with spells... That is fine, but I am not out to do 200+ damage a round (most things don't survive that for one hit, so why be able to do it for multiple hits per round?), but rather to focus my main spell(s) with the greatest efficiency and truth to the concept... That is what you should be trying to achieve, because direct damage is not all that efficient, especially at higher lvs. You still need to be able to contribute effectively in combat, and if you are doing this by dealing damage, then you had better be prepared to really do a lot of it to keep on par with save-or-die spell.s