Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fiery_Fighter_Drake 05-06-07, 02:19 PM	Well, the question is as you see it in the title. It's concerning those bonus feats that don't inculde "even if he/she does not qualify for the feat".
CantripN 05-06-07, 02:22 PM	Can you give an example?
Fiery_Fighter_Drake 05-06-07, 02:27 PM	The Dragontouched feat gained at level 1 of the Dragonfire Adept class.
SilentOne 05-06-07, 02:32 PM	If you gain the feat but don't meet the prerequisites and it doesn't say "even if you don't meet the prerequisites", then you have the feat but cannot use it. Nor can you use anything that has the bonus feat as a prerequisite, because of some rule that I can't find at the moment (but it's there).
Nephlite 05-06-07, 02:32 PM	The Dragontouched feat gained at level 1 of the Dragonfire Adept class. Than you don't gt it until you meet the prerequisites. Eventually, I'll assume you will. Incidentily, what are the prerequisites?
Fiery_Fighter_Drake 05-06-07, 02:33 PM	Cha 11...but I'm playing a dwarf... Okay...I'll need further clatification...
Drachasor 05-06-07, 04:37 PM	Generally speaking, you still get and can use the feat even if it doesn't have that clause. There are rare exceptions to this, but you have to judge them on a case by case basis. (This is a statement about the spirit of the rules, how they were intended. Other people have already commented with the literal interpretation). For the Dragonfire Adept, I know that you are supposed to be able to use that feat, and it doesn't make sense to deny it. Talk to your DM about it, he'll probably be reasonable. -Drachasor
navar100 05-06-07, 04:55 PM	If it doesn't say you have to meet the prerequisites, you get the feat. Clerics with War Domain do get Weapon Focus at level one even though their BAB is +0.
ShinAkuma2 05-06-07, 06:59 PM	Generally, if you are handed a specific feat, you don't need the prereqs. If you are given a free feat from a list (like Fighter or Scout bonus feats), then you need to pick a feat for which you qualify.
Celas Evriamytholin 05-08-07, 12:42 PM	It is my understanding that these abilities - feats or whatnot, are granted to you through the special training of a particular class. If it says that it gives you the feat, even if you don't meet the pre-requisites, I believe it means because you are a certain level of a certain class, it gives you the feat, and you are allowed to use it. You are an exception to the normal rules because of the special training you have that lets you circumvent certain prerequisites others need to attain that level of perfection. For example, (I can't access the SRD right now, but...) The monk gains several bonus feats this way, like, trip, Stunning Fist, etc. because his entire existence revolves around the usage of these abilities. He can also use these feats at level 2 or 4. A fighter, on the other hand, needs to take several feats to be able to eventually take stunning fist. And a base attack of +8 I think. Bonus Feat At 1st level, a monk may select either Improved Grapple or Stunning Fist as a bonus feat. At 2nd level, she may select either Combat Reflexes or Deflect Arrows as a bonus feat. At 6th level, she may select either Improved Disarm or Improved Trip as a bonus feat. A monk need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them. Bonus Feats At 1st level, a fighter gets a bonus combat-oriented feat in addition to the feat that any 1st-level character gets and the bonus feat granted to a human character. The fighter gains an additional bonus feat at 2nd level and every two fighter levels thereafter (4th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th, 14th, 16th, 18th, and 20th). These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as fighter bonus feats. A fighter must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums. Additionally... Stunning Fist [General] Prerequisites Dex 13, Wis 13, Improved Unarmed Strike, base attack bonus +8. Benefit You must declare that you are using this feat before you make your attack roll (thus, a failed attack roll ruins the attempt). Stunning Fist forces a foe damaged by your unarmed attack to make a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + ½ your character level + your Wis modifier), in addition to dealing damage normally. A defender who fails this saving throw is stunned for 1 round (until just before your next action). A stunned creature drops everything held, can’t take actions, takes a -2 penalty to AC, and loses his Dexterity bonus to AC. You may attempt a stunning attack once per day for every four levels you have attained (but see Special), and no more than once per round. Constructs, oozes, plants, undead, incorporeal creatures, and creatures immune to critical hits cannot be stunned. Special A monk may select Stunning Fist as a bonus feat at 1st level, even if she does not meet the prerequisites. A monk who selects this feat may attempt a stunning attack a number of times per day equal to her monk level, plus one more time per day for every four levels she has in classes other than monk. A fighter may select Stunning Fist as one of his fighter bonus feats. Catch my drift? :) So, essentially, it means that any random character that would want to take stunning fist, and who doesn't normally get it as a class feature, needs to have a BAB of +8, etc... and meet all the prerequisites. Otherwise, like the monk example, they get it as a class feature, and thus can use it without meeting any or all of the prerequ's.
Nom 05-08-07, 08:15 PM	MM pg 301: "It is acceptable for a creature to have a bonus feat for which it does not meet the prerequisites." In general, you should assume that if something has a feat then it qualifies for it, regardless of whether it meets the normal pre-reqs for choosing the feat (ie the race or class granting it the feat overrides the normal pre-reqs).