Quick Draw-Pointless? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Quick Draw-Pointless? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Thorax2
07-08-07, 07:06 PM Just wondering...
I know there's probably like 20000 threads on this already, but if a character can draw a weapon as a free action if he has a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, but a BAB of +1 is a prerequisite of Quick Draw, is like Quick Draw a feat all characters get with a BAB of +1 or something? Please help quick, because I'm really confused.
DocBeard
07-08-07, 07:19 PM As it happens, you cannot (exactly) draw a weapon as a free action if your BAB is +1. What you can do is combine the act of drawing a weapon with moving, all as one move action. If you aren't moving, then it still requires a move action to draw a weapon.

Hence the Quick Draw feat.
ishpu
07-08-07, 07:29 PM and you still cant draw it for free with a 5 ft step either since its a free action not a move action i believe.
Salla
07-08-07, 07:35 PM I've largely found it useless because, most of the time, you can see a bad situation coming ... you're prowling in the dungeon, someone's chasing you, you're chasing someone ... 90% of the players I've ever gamed with have their weapon out the moment their spider-senses start to tingle.

I even once looked at a person funny who had Quick Draw *and* still regularly held his weapon in hand (he didn't have combat reflexes, either). Just couldn't figure out why ...
Irving
07-08-07, 07:39 PM It's when you want to swap weapons that it gets interesting, or if you want to throw more than one weapon in a round.

If you're without Quick Draw, you have to (for example) fire your bow (drawing it as a move action), drop it (free action) and draw your sword (move action), then go into melee. If you want to back out and fire arrows again, or if you're worried about losing your bow, it can get sticky.
ishpu
07-08-07, 07:42 PM well lets say you're a 2wf and you lose initiative... they move to you and attack. now you have to use a double move for your turn... a move equivilant to draw one... then an actual move to draw another... you just lost out on an entire round. or if you're a thrower character you need to be drawing weapons to throw for each one of your attacks... so you can only throw a few instead of a number equal to the number of attacks you have.
Jay_Ibero_911
07-08-07, 08:23 PM well lets say you're a 2wf and you lose initiative... they move to you and attack. now you have to use a double move for your turn... a move equivilant to draw one... then an actual move to draw another... you just lost out on an entire round. or if you're a thrower character you need to be drawing weapons to throw for each one of your attacks... so you can only throw a few instead of a number equal to the number of attacks you have.

Actually if you have TWF you can draw 2 weapons in the time it takes to draw one.
ishpu
07-08-07, 08:30 PM i dont see that anywhere... where is that info?
ishpu
07-08-07, 08:31 PM nevermind i'm dumb pg 142 of phb... i just never saw it before.
Qwicksilver
07-08-07, 08:35 PM Helps if you have many weapons or you're using a character that throws daggers etc. Many of my characters tend to have multiple kinds of weapons, pole arms, swords, ranged weapons, so quick draw comes in handy.
utilitarian
07-08-07, 08:36 PM i dont see that anywhere... where is that info?

Since drawing a weapon is a free action with Quick Draw, and you can take an unlimited number of free actions in a round, you take a free action to draw sword 1, and then a free action to draw sword 2.

Essentially, Quick Draw is neccissary if you want to make a full attack with a weapon that is sheathed at the start of your turn.

Also, Quick Draw is a big part of throwing weapon builds (if you want to throw four weapons in a round, you need quick draw, or four hands *L*)
was_fired
07-08-07, 08:37 PM As far as I'm aware quickdraw is really just for characters built around thrown weapons as it allows them to full attack.
Salla
07-08-07, 08:41 PM Or for Rogues who need to get off an attack in the Surprise Round.
umbrafire
07-09-07, 12:40 AM Keep in mind that Quick Draw is a prerequisite for some pretty cool feats. For example, Flick of the Wrist allows a character to draw a concealed weapon and make an attack at the defender's flat-footed AC. One of my players actually uses this with multiple hidden saps in order to get multiple massive non-lethal sneak attacks in combat.
InkBlot
07-09-07, 01:20 AM I once played a halfing ranger/wizard, named Ashes, who just had a boatload of various weapons. Nets, alchemical vials, wands, scrolls, a light shield, a rapier, daggers, a sling, a crossbow, a hammer and some other things I can't recall. He would often switch tactics, and weapons, several times over the course of a battle. Quick Draw was vital for him.

For example, one time him and another PC were baiting thieves on the docks of Sharn. A sahaugin jumped out of the water to mug our bait guy, so Ashes jumped out of the shadows and attacked the sahaugin. Then another two sahaugin stepped out from around the corner, one wrestled bait guy to the ground, the other moved to flank Ashes, and the first started to run away. Thinking fast, Ashes put his rapier in his shield hand, drew and tossed a net over the head of the one running away, nailed the net's rope to the wooden planks of the dock with a dagger, re-gripped his sword, and stepped around to face the last unoccupied sahaugin thief. Without Quick Draw, that round wouldn't have been nearly as cool.

Also, without Quick Draw you can't ready your shield, draw your sword, and attack in the same round. You might be able to normally keep one weapon out, but some things (like riding a horse or climbing a wall) require a free hand.
Noodles2375
07-09-07, 01:25 AM Keep in mind that Quick Draw is a prerequisite for some pretty cool feats. For example, Flick of the Wrist allows a character to draw a concealed weapon and make an attack at the defender's flat-footed AC. One of my players actually uses this with multiple hidden saps in order to get multiple massive non-lethal sneak attacks in combat.

Don't forget also, its also a pre-req for participating in Iajitsu duels if your campaign is of that persuasion!
Leilond
07-09-07, 04:01 AM My party fighter has with him
1 adamantum great sword
1 cold iron lance
1 silver warhammer
(and various oils to give the weapons the right power for overcoming the DR that the wizard and the clerics will point out to the fighter thanks to their good Knowled (xxx) ranks)
So, every now and then, it happens that the fighter is in front of an enemy with the "wrong weapon" and "quick draw" become very usefull to change weapon (leaving the first to the ground) and still full attack
snakeman830
07-09-07, 10:53 AM Plus, it's a boat-load of fun when you combine it with lots of dancing weapons. Sure, it gets expensive, but there's nothing cooler than getting surprised and having ten dancing daggers floating around you when you've got two more (non-dancing) in your hands before you've used any standard or move actions.
Leilond
07-09-07, 10:57 AM Plus, it's a boat-load of fun when you combine it with lots of dancing weapons. Sure, it gets expensive, but there's nothing cooler than getting surprised and having ten dancing daggers floating around you when you've got two more (non-dancing) in your hands before you've used any standard or move actions.

Fun... I will limt this... it's called abuse :P
As the rules say, your DM can limit the number of free action available in a turn... so I'm not house ruling, simply applying a rule to limit another rule abuse ;)
snakeman830
07-09-07, 11:03 AM Fun... I will limt this... it's called abuse :P
As the rules say, your DM can limit the number of free action available in a turn... so I'm not house ruling, simply applying a rule to limit another rule abuse ;)

Remember that dancing weapons are a +4 bonus, for a minimum price of 50,302 gp per dagger. There is no way a character can seriously pull this off and still survive (due to their low AC, magic items, etc.) until epic levels when it's sub-par anyway.
Leilond
07-09-07, 11:37 AM Remember that dancing weapons are a +4 bonus, for a minimum price of 50,302 gp per dagger. There is no way a character can seriously pull this off and still survive (due to their low AC, magic items, etc.) until epic levels when it's sub-par anyway.

You can do it with two handed weapon instead of daggrer, without changing the price to much... and it is so bad to see that I will not admit it anyway
tvar1
07-09-07, 11:56 AM Fun... I will limt this... it's called abuse :P
As the rules say, your DM can limit the number of free action available in a turn... so I'm not house ruling, simply applying a rule to limit another rule abuse ;)

Setting a dancing weapon to attack requires a standard action anyway. So you can only set one per round.
yannick_de_vries
07-09-07, 12:14 PM quick draw may be very handy for rogue ( in complete warriror you'll find it )

if you pass 3 rounds fighting with only one weapond in one hand and if you have quick draw ( spot check vs your bluff ) to make your oppenent flat footed ( if only you have improve feint )
Dheran
07-09-07, 12:48 PM Nobody's pointed out the help Quick Draw gives you if the enemy uses sunder or disarm against your weapon in hand. Quick Draw is also hand for those who trip with weapons, because they can be pulled away from you if you fail your check.
tarkin
07-09-07, 12:52 PM Quick draw:

1. If you want are not using a move action to move NORMALLY, you need quickdraw. No standing up from prone and drawing a weapon for example.

2. Thrown weapons.

3. Protection against sunder, disarm and failed trip attempts with a weapon.

4. Certain other abilities that usually involve Rogue stuff.

Quickdraw is a worthwhile feat, but not a fantastic one.
tafkamhokie
07-09-07, 01:01 PM People have already covered the benefits to a rogue, a thrown weapon fighter, or a warrior-type who carries multiple weapons.

But I have found it to be extremely useful for...wizards.

Most wizards I know of carry a boatload of scrolls, wands, staffs, and rods. And they rarely use the same one each round. Quick draw lets you get the one you need, use it, and still have a move action left over afterwards. You can either use that action to move out of the way (wizards who stand still round after round don't seem to last very long), or stow the item you just used so you can be ready to use something else next round.

Without quick draw, it takes a move action to draw an item, a standard action to use it, then you either have to use a move action to stow it or a free action to drop it. Dropping a spent scroll is no big deal, but I doubt you really want to leave your wand of shield laying on floor during a nasty fight.
solbergb
07-09-07, 01:02 PM What tarkin said, and add archers to the list.

Archers are all about getting the full attack, every round.

Not every fight will start with your bow in hand (might be for social reasons, or might be because you got disarmed or stunned or something). Archers also need backup bows - a quickdraw+full attack with your next-best bow is still likely better than picking up your bow off the ground and shooting once (assuming your bow is still there to pick up)
RealSorceror
07-09-07, 01:06 PM Quick Draw: Its all about that Iajustu Focus. :)
Demoyn
07-09-07, 02:16 PM I use quickdraw for... potions. Nothing like having 1 HP left when facing an opponent with reach. Quickdraw allows you to pull the potion as a free action, then tumble away and drink. I'm not sure just exactly how many house rules are involved in this (pulling a potion with quickdraw may or may not be, as well as allowing or disallowing a character to pull the potion while tumbling), but at my house it's all sorts of useful. Potions and wands are the biggest uses, but any character with a +6 or higher BAB can benefit (as well as +0 BAB chars, obviously).
Loki5654
07-09-07, 02:48 PM Just remember that some DMs (myself included) do not consider scrolls and potions "weapon-like" objects and thus cannot be Quickdrawn.

Just be sure to check with your DM and make sure you both have the same definition of "weapon-like".
Twylyght
07-09-07, 03:41 PM Just remember that some DMs (myself included) do not consider scrolls and potions "weapon-like" objects and thus cannot be Quickdrawn.

Just be sure to check with your DM and make sure you both have the same definition of "weapon-like".

We came up with what basically amounts to a special bandolier or belt that allows feat usage with scrolls or potions, with priced based on number of slots. Think the had simular items in the A&EG.

Anyhow Quickdraw + Throw Anything + Basket full of looted junk weapons = fun
TheWhirlingDeathaxe
07-09-07, 04:27 PM Just remember that some DMs (myself included) do not consider scrolls and potions "weapon-like" objects and thus cannot be Quickdrawn.

Just be sure to check with your DM and make sure you both have the same definition of "weapon-like".

We just had this argument at our table a week ago. The whole thing started when somebody asked if a flask of Alchemist Fire would be considered a "weapon-like" object. By definition it is. So then that leads to the fact that a potion bottle and a Flask of Alchemist Fire are alomost identical in all ways except contents. Our conclusion was that you can quickdraw any piece of equipment that you can grasp without having to manipulate any other piece of equipment. For example you would have to tie your potions or scrolls to your belt or the outside of your backpack in order to be able to Quick Draw them, which has obvious disadvantages. You can't Quick Draw items from belt pouches or your back pack. The player with the issue just hired a leather crafter to make him a potion bandolier (A leather belt slung across the chest) allowing him to hold 10 potions ready for quickdraw.
Mastel
07-10-07, 09:54 PM The Glove of Storing are very good to quickdraw a weapon or any thing else. It's not as good as the feat but it can help a lot...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Thorax2 07-08-07, 07:06 PM	Just wondering... I know there's probably like 20000 threads on this already, but if a character can draw a weapon as a free action if he has a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, but a BAB of +1 is a prerequisite of Quick Draw, is like Quick Draw a feat all characters get with a BAB of +1 or something? Please help quick, because I'm really confused.
DocBeard 07-08-07, 07:19 PM	As it happens, you cannot (exactly) draw a weapon as a free action if your BAB is +1. What you can do is combine the act of drawing a weapon with moving, all as one move action. If you aren't moving, then it still requires a move action to draw a weapon. Hence the Quick Draw feat.
ishpu 07-08-07, 07:29 PM	and you still cant draw it for free with a 5 ft step either since its a free action not a move action i believe.
Salla 07-08-07, 07:35 PM	I've largely found it useless because, most of the time, you can see a bad situation coming ... you're prowling in the dungeon, someone's chasing you, you're chasing someone ... 90% of the players I've ever gamed with have their weapon out the moment their spider-senses start to tingle. I even once looked at a person funny who had Quick Draw and still regularly held his weapon in hand (he didn't have combat reflexes, either). Just couldn't figure out why ...
Irving 07-08-07, 07:39 PM	It's when you want to swap weapons that it gets interesting, or if you want to throw more than one weapon in a round. If you're without Quick Draw, you have to (for example) fire your bow (drawing it as a move action), drop it (free action) and draw your sword (move action), then go into melee. If you want to back out and fire arrows again, or if you're worried about losing your bow, it can get sticky.
ishpu 07-08-07, 07:42 PM	well lets say you're a 2wf and you lose initiative... they move to you and attack. now you have to use a double move for your turn... a move equivilant to draw one... then an actual move to draw another... you just lost out on an entire round. or if you're a thrower character you need to be drawing weapons to throw for each one of your attacks... so you can only throw a few instead of a number equal to the number of attacks you have.
Jay_Ibero_911 07-08-07, 08:23 PM	well lets say you're a 2wf and you lose initiative... they move to you and attack. now you have to use a double move for your turn... a move equivilant to draw one... then an actual move to draw another... you just lost out on an entire round. or if you're a thrower character you need to be drawing weapons to throw for each one of your attacks... so you can only throw a few instead of a number equal to the number of attacks you have. Actually if you have TWF you can draw 2 weapons in the time it takes to draw one.
ishpu 07-08-07, 08:30 PM	i dont see that anywhere... where is that info?
ishpu 07-08-07, 08:31 PM	nevermind i'm dumb pg 142 of phb... i just never saw it before.
Qwicksilver 07-08-07, 08:35 PM	Helps if you have many weapons or you're using a character that throws daggers etc. Many of my characters tend to have multiple kinds of weapons, pole arms, swords, ranged weapons, so quick draw comes in handy.
utilitarian 07-08-07, 08:36 PM	i dont see that anywhere... where is that info? Since drawing a weapon is a free action with Quick Draw, and you can take an unlimited number of free actions in a round, you take a free action to draw sword 1, and then a free action to draw sword 2. Essentially, Quick Draw is neccissary if you want to make a full attack with a weapon that is sheathed at the start of your turn. Also, Quick Draw is a big part of throwing weapon builds (if you want to throw four weapons in a round, you need quick draw, or four hands L)
was_fired 07-08-07, 08:37 PM	As far as I'm aware quickdraw is really just for characters built around thrown weapons as it allows them to full attack.
Salla 07-08-07, 08:41 PM	Or for Rogues who need to get off an attack in the Surprise Round.
umbrafire 07-09-07, 12:40 AM	Keep in mind that Quick Draw is a prerequisite for some pretty cool feats. For example, Flick of the Wrist allows a character to draw a concealed weapon and make an attack at the defender's flat-footed AC. One of my players actually uses this with multiple hidden saps in order to get multiple massive non-lethal sneak attacks in combat.
InkBlot 07-09-07, 01:20 AM	I once played a halfing ranger/wizard, named Ashes, who just had a boatload of various weapons. Nets, alchemical vials, wands, scrolls, a light shield, a rapier, daggers, a sling, a crossbow, a hammer and some other things I can't recall. He would often switch tactics, and weapons, several times over the course of a battle. Quick Draw was vital for him. For example, one time him and another PC were baiting thieves on the docks of Sharn. A sahaugin jumped out of the water to mug our bait guy, so Ashes jumped out of the shadows and attacked the sahaugin. Then another two sahaugin stepped out from around the corner, one wrestled bait guy to the ground, the other moved to flank Ashes, and the first started to run away. Thinking fast, Ashes put his rapier in his shield hand, drew and tossed a net over the head of the one running away, nailed the net's rope to the wooden planks of the dock with a dagger, re-gripped his sword, and stepped around to face the last unoccupied sahaugin thief. Without Quick Draw, that round wouldn't have been nearly as cool. Also, without Quick Draw you can't ready your shield, draw your sword, and attack in the same round. You might be able to normally keep one weapon out, but some things (like riding a horse or climbing a wall) require a free hand.
Noodles2375 07-09-07, 01:25 AM	Keep in mind that Quick Draw is a prerequisite for some pretty cool feats. For example, Flick of the Wrist allows a character to draw a concealed weapon and make an attack at the defender's flat-footed AC. One of my players actually uses this with multiple hidden saps in order to get multiple massive non-lethal sneak attacks in combat. Don't forget also, its also a pre-req for participating in Iajitsu duels if your campaign is of that persuasion!
Leilond 07-09-07, 04:01 AM	My party fighter has with him 1 adamantum great sword 1 cold iron lance 1 silver warhammer (and various oils to give the weapons the right power for overcoming the DR that the wizard and the clerics will point out to the fighter thanks to their good Knowled (xxx) ranks) So, every now and then, it happens that the fighter is in front of an enemy with the "wrong weapon" and "quick draw" become very usefull to change weapon (leaving the first to the ground) and still full attack
snakeman830 07-09-07, 10:53 AM	Plus, it's a boat-load of fun when you combine it with lots of dancing weapons. Sure, it gets expensive, but there's nothing cooler than getting surprised and having ten dancing daggers floating around you when you've got two more (non-dancing) in your hands before you've used any standard or move actions.
Leilond 07-09-07, 10:57 AM	Plus, it's a boat-load of fun when you combine it with lots of dancing weapons. Sure, it gets expensive, but there's nothing cooler than getting surprised and having ten dancing daggers floating around you when you've got two more (non-dancing) in your hands before you've used any standard or move actions. Fun... I will limt this... it's called abuse :P As the rules say, your DM can limit the number of free action available in a turn... so I'm not house ruling, simply applying a rule to limit another rule abuse ;)
snakeman830 07-09-07, 11:03 AM	Fun... I will limt this... it's called abuse :P As the rules say, your DM can limit the number of free action available in a turn... so I'm not house ruling, simply applying a rule to limit another rule abuse ;) Remember that dancing weapons are a +4 bonus, for a minimum price of 50,302 gp per dagger. There is no way a character can seriously pull this off and still survive (due to their low AC, magic items, etc.) until epic levels when it's sub-par anyway.
Leilond 07-09-07, 11:37 AM	Remember that dancing weapons are a +4 bonus, for a minimum price of 50,302 gp per dagger. There is no way a character can seriously pull this off and still survive (due to their low AC, magic items, etc.) until epic levels when it's sub-par anyway. You can do it with two handed weapon instead of daggrer, without changing the price to much... and it is so bad to see that I will not admit it anyway
tvar1 07-09-07, 11:56 AM	Fun... I will limt this... it's called abuse :P As the rules say, your DM can limit the number of free action available in a turn... so I'm not house ruling, simply applying a rule to limit another rule abuse ;) Setting a dancing weapon to attack requires a standard action anyway. So you can only set one per round.
yannick_de_vries 07-09-07, 12:14 PM	quick draw may be very handy for rogue ( in complete warriror you'll find it ) if you pass 3 rounds fighting with only one weapond in one hand and if you have quick draw ( spot check vs your bluff ) to make your oppenent flat footed ( if only you have improve feint )
Dheran 07-09-07, 12:48 PM	Nobody's pointed out the help Quick Draw gives you if the enemy uses sunder or disarm against your weapon in hand. Quick Draw is also hand for those who trip with weapons, because they can be pulled away from you if you fail your check.
tarkin 07-09-07, 12:52 PM	Quick draw: 1. If you want are not using a move action to move NORMALLY, you need quickdraw. No standing up from prone and drawing a weapon for example. 2. Thrown weapons. 3. Protection against sunder, disarm and failed trip attempts with a weapon. 4. Certain other abilities that usually involve Rogue stuff. Quickdraw is a worthwhile feat, but not a fantastic one.
tafkamhokie 07-09-07, 01:01 PM	People have already covered the benefits to a rogue, a thrown weapon fighter, or a warrior-type who carries multiple weapons. But I have found it to be extremely useful for...wizards. Most wizards I know of carry a boatload of scrolls, wands, staffs, and rods. And they rarely use the same one each round. Quick draw lets you get the one you need, use it, and still have a move action left over afterwards. You can either use that action to move out of the way (wizards who stand still round after round don't seem to last very long), or stow the item you just used so you can be ready to use something else next round. Without quick draw, it takes a move action to draw an item, a standard action to use it, then you either have to use a move action to stow it or a free action to drop it. Dropping a spent scroll is no big deal, but I doubt you really want to leave your wand of shield laying on floor during a nasty fight.
solbergb 07-09-07, 01:02 PM	What tarkin said, and add archers to the list. Archers are all about getting the full attack, every round. Not every fight will start with your bow in hand (might be for social reasons, or might be because you got disarmed or stunned or something). Archers also need backup bows - a quickdraw+full attack with your next-best bow is still likely better than picking up your bow off the ground and shooting once (assuming your bow is still there to pick up)
RealSorceror 07-09-07, 01:06 PM	Quick Draw: Its all about that Iajustu Focus. :)
Demoyn 07-09-07, 02:16 PM	I use quickdraw for... potions. Nothing like having 1 HP left when facing an opponent with reach. Quickdraw allows you to pull the potion as a free action, then tumble away and drink. I'm not sure just exactly how many house rules are involved in this (pulling a potion with quickdraw may or may not be, as well as allowing or disallowing a character to pull the potion while tumbling), but at my house it's all sorts of useful. Potions and wands are the biggest uses, but any character with a +6 or higher BAB can benefit (as well as +0 BAB chars, obviously).
Loki5654 07-09-07, 02:48 PM	Just remember that some DMs (myself included) do not consider scrolls and potions "weapon-like" objects and thus cannot be Quickdrawn. Just be sure to check with your DM and make sure you both have the same definition of "weapon-like".
Twylyght 07-09-07, 03:41 PM	Just remember that some DMs (myself included) do not consider scrolls and potions "weapon-like" objects and thus cannot be Quickdrawn. Just be sure to check with your DM and make sure you both have the same definition of "weapon-like". We came up with what basically amounts to a special bandolier or belt that allows feat usage with scrolls or potions, with priced based on number of slots. Think the had simular items in the A&EG. Anyhow Quickdraw + Throw Anything + Basket full of looted junk weapons = fun
TheWhirlingDeathaxe 07-09-07, 04:27 PM	Just remember that some DMs (myself included) do not consider scrolls and potions "weapon-like" objects and thus cannot be Quickdrawn. Just be sure to check with your DM and make sure you both have the same definition of "weapon-like". We just had this argument at our table a week ago. The whole thing started when somebody asked if a flask of Alchemist Fire would be considered a "weapon-like" object. By definition it is. So then that leads to the fact that a potion bottle and a Flask of Alchemist Fire are alomost identical in all ways except contents. Our conclusion was that you can quickdraw any piece of equipment that you can grasp without having to manipulate any other piece of equipment. For example you would have to tie your potions or scrolls to your belt or the outside of your backpack in order to be able to Quick Draw them, which has obvious disadvantages. You can't Quick Draw items from belt pouches or your back pack. The player with the issue just hired a leather crafter to make him a potion bandolier (A leather belt slung across the chest) allowing him to hold 10 potions ready for quickdraw.
Mastel 07-10-07, 09:54 PM	The Glove of Storing are very good to quickdraw a weapon or any thing else. It's not as good as the feat but it can help a lot...