quick question on Robilard's karma. [Archive] - Wizards Community

quick question on Robilard's karma. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SolenVlos
02-27-07, 04:28 PM Hi all.

I'm a little confused on the diference of robilard's gambit and karmic strike.

The way I read it, to get robilard's AoOs, you must be attacked.
And to get Karmic's AoOs, you must be hit.
is this correct?

I'm going straight fighter and see what happens.
also, if anyone wants to suggest a good two-handed weapon (not the spiked chain. I don't like it), or a build or anything for a 14th lvl fighter, themed around formal training and knowledge in battle, fell free.

ps: the standard wealth for 14th lvl PCs are 140k, right?
FrostHammer
02-27-07, 05:12 PM Yep. If you get hit, you get to make 2 AoOs.
Tempest Stormwind
02-27-07, 09:21 PM According to Customer Service, you don't. Of course, there's no reason whatsoever to assume that being attacked and being hit are the same thing, so CustServ's ruling can go stuff it. See also "Sereg's Complaint" -- essentially, WotC's tendency to say that melee characters' things (like these feats) never stack, while spellcasters' things almost always do.
FrostHammer
02-27-07, 09:27 PM CustServ says a lot of things.

Many people don't listen to them (especially their stuff about Tome of Battle)

And yeah, there's a reason the company is called Wizards of the Coast and not Fighters of the Coast.
nameneeded
02-28-07, 12:12 AM I thought I read somewhere that you could only take 1 AoO on a target unless they do another action that forces another one. Since its 1 attack they only done one action thus only one AoO.
nameneeded
02-28-07, 12:14 AM I thought I read somewhere that you could only take 1 AoO on a target unless they do another action that forces another one. Since its 1 attack they only done one action thus only one AoO.
And remember you can only take 1 AoO per round unless you have feats that allow you to take more like Combat Reflexes. And I don't think Rob's Gambit or Karmic do that.
runestar
02-28-07, 12:20 AM Robilard's gamble is not contingent on the foe actually hitting you, it just requires that the attempt be made. For karmic strike, the enemy must actually hit you(attack roll > AC). However, with the AC penalty you are taking(which is cumulative), contact seems more likely than not.

If you have both, you can make 2 AoOs if the enemy hits you, though you will need combat reflexes and a good dex score to take advantage of this, and both still count towards your limit of AoOs for the round.:)

It can be useful for a barb build. They hit you? Just hit them back twice as hard.:D Power attack and deft opportunist are good complements as well.:)
nameneeded
02-28-07, 12:33 AM You can't use Power Attack for an AoO unless it was active at the top of the inish though.

But but mix in Close Quarter combat and if they make a grapple attempt (starts with a touch attack) thats alot of pain!
FrostHammer
02-28-07, 01:42 AM Take Karmic Strike and never worry about low AC ever again in melee. Power attack and Shock Trooper to your heart's content.
runestar
02-28-07, 02:21 AM You can't use Power Attack for an AoO unless it was active at the top of the inish though.
Yeah, I meant basically leave power attack on 24/7. The +4 to hit for deft opportunist makes up for the -4 you can safely take, giving a net +8 damage bonus for 2-handed weapons.:)
JBW
02-28-07, 07:45 AM I'm going to agree that any single action - including the result of that action - should only provoke a single AoO. Since the opponent is only taking one action (attacking you) and the two feats basically provide the AoO from that action (with Karmic Strike being limited to attacks that actually hit), I don't believe that these two Feats should stack.
runestar
02-28-07, 08:54 AM I'm going to agree that any single action - including the result of that action - should only provoke a single AoO. Since the opponent is only taking one action (attacking you) and the two feats basically provide the AoO from that action (with Karmic Strike being limited to attacks that actually hit), I don't believe that these two Feats should stack.
I think I know what you are referring to.:)
From the SRD,
Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity: If you have the Combat Reflexes feat you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity).
However, I see these 2 feats as 2 separate opportunities, since they are contingent on 2 completely separate criteria.

Opponent declares he is attacking you, that first triggers robilar's gambit(first opportunity). If he actually hits you, then karmic strike activates(2nd opportunity).

Considering that the 2 conditions are mutually exclusive, I don't see why its either one or the either. They should both work...:confused:
SunTzuWarmaster
02-28-07, 09:27 AM One of the players in a campaign of mine got tired of me asking him how much he was power attacking for, if he was taking Karmic Strike penalties to AC, ect.

He eventually told me:
I AM A BARBARIAN.
THERE IS ONE WAY TO ATTACK: POWER ATTACK.
THERE IS ONE WAY TO TAKE ATTACKS: WITH ANGRY RETALIATION.

(mechanically: "I am always power attacking for full, I am always Karmic Striking")
SolenVlos
02-28-07, 02:16 PM So I think I'm better of with robilard's.
thanks for the imputs;
1hitparry
02-28-07, 08:04 PM Wait, is there a time paradox with Karmic Strike? I'm not totally familiar with the feat, so correct me if I'm wrong. AoOs occur before the action that provoked the AoO starts. So if you get hit with an attack, and use an AoO granted by karmic strike and kill the person that hit you, wouldn't you have killed them before they hit you?
Tempest Stormwind
02-28-07, 08:13 PM Wait, is there a time paradox with Karmic Strike? I'm not totally familiar with the feat, so correct me if I'm wrong. AoOs occur before the action that provoked the AoO starts. So if you get hit with an attack, and use an AoO granted by karmic strike and kill the person that hit you, wouldn't you have killed them before they hit you?

Karmic strike actually says that they have successfully damaged you. You've already been hit, and damage is going to be rolled, but hasn't been yet since the Karmic AoO is triggered. In MtG terminology, the damage is on the stack, and destroying the creature who put it there doesn't remove the damage.

The flavor of Karmic Strike is very much like that move seen in several samurai films where they allow themselves to be struck to force an opening in the opponent.
runestar
02-28-07, 10:01 PM Query about robilar's gambit: if I used the AoO they provoke to successfully trip and/or disarm them(using the extra attack from improved trip), how will this affect the enemy's attack?

Say I am a fighter with robilar's gambit. The bugbear swings at me, thus provoking an AoO. I use the AoO to successfully trip him. What happens to him then? Does he receive the appropriate penalties on his attack roll made to hit me? What if I had disarmed him instead?:)
FrostHammer
03-01-07, 01:08 AM If you trip the opponent, then the opponent is on the ground, and not attacking you. That's how I'd rule it. you have interrupted his attack.
runestar
03-01-07, 02:12 AM A character knocked prone by a trip can still attack, can't he? Just that he takes a penalty to his attack rolls.

If so, would his attack roll after being tripped by virtue of Robilar's gambit factor in this -4 to-hit penalty from being prone?
FrostHammer
03-01-07, 02:28 AM I'd still rule his attack has been interrupted. Think about it, if you were knocked on your ass while trying to swing at someone, your swing has been stopped. I don't know about you, but I can't make a swing while being tripped.
StruckingFuggle
03-01-07, 03:20 AM also, if anyone wants to suggest a good two-handed weapon[/QUOTE]

Falchion. Great Scimitar if you want to spare a feat for EWP.

Might as well add "I almost always critical" on top of all that extra damage...
runestar
03-01-07, 07:27 AM Next question that came to me while I was showering...

If 2 fighters with robilar's gambit and improved combat reflexes(the epic feat which lets you make as many AoOs as you want) attack each other....:P

What happens?

Does it go something like:
1: I attack you.
2: I make an AoO at you in response.
1: I respond to that AoO with an AoO of my own.
2: I respond to your response with my own AoO.
1: And I respond to .....

10 years later...
1: I respond to your 1 billionth response to my ....
2: And in response...:D
FrostHammer
03-01-07, 12:23 PM I'd say in that case, they act more like Karmic Strike for that fighter. Fighter 1 swings at fighter 2, and F2 gets an Aoo at F1. The AoO resolves and the hit either lands or misses BEFORE F1 gets an AoO at F2.
1hitparry
03-01-07, 01:34 PM Where do Karmic Strike and Robilar's Gambit come from? These feats sound kind like fun. Also, is power attack, shock trooper, Robilar's Gambit, and Karmic strike stupid borken and not fun to play? I'm considering making a melee charcter based around this.
FrostHammer
03-01-07, 01:39 PM Fighters can't be stupidly broken. And if you go the charger route, I see NO reason why you won't take Karmic or Robilars. Go for it. Don't forget you can still get creamed from ranged attacks and magic.
StruckingFuggle
03-01-07, 02:11 PM now, if you slap those on a charger (or, god forbid, a cavalier travelling with a white raven warblade) ... and spirited charge someone with PA, shock trooper, everything ... and then someone triggers the Karmic Gambic and hits, do you deal your charge + spirited charge damage on the AoOs, too? o.O
FrostHammer
03-01-07, 03:12 PM 1: I'm not sure Shock Trooper works with mounted charging (I hope it does)

2: No, AoOs allow you to make a single attack option (like trip, disarm, melee attack, whatever). you can't select "charge" as one of your options for AoOs. Remember, Spirited Charge is like you're IMPALING your target with your lance. When you get an AoO from Robilar's gambit, you're more like swatting at the guy as you're riding past him to hit the target. You would, however, get the bonus from Power Attack, if you used that option.
StruckingFuggle
03-01-07, 04:35 PM 2: No, AoOs allow you to make a single attack option (like trip, disarm, melee attack, whatever). you can't select "charge" as one of your options for AoOs. Remember, Spirited Charge is like you're IMPALING your target with your lance. When you get an AoO from Robilar's gambit, you're more like swatting at the guy as you're riding past him to hit the target. You would, however, get the bonus from Power Attack, if you used that option.

I didn't mean so much "charge" as an AoO as ... well.

Bob The Squasher charges on his horse, and piles huge damage onto Nate The Squishy. Power Attack, Shock Trooper, Spirited Charge with a Lance, etc etc. Plus the +2 to attack and damage from the charge.

Now, until the beginning of Bob's next turn, he has a penalty to attack rolls (or AC) and a bonus to damage from Power Attack, that will also factor into any AoOs he may take.

Now then. He also has Karmic Strike active. Dave The Squishier steps up on his action that round, and tries to whack Bob for splattering his friend Nale. Dave hits, and so Bob gets an AoO on him. The Power Attack penalties and bonus still apply to Dave for his attack - but does that attack get +2 to attack and damage from the charge (especially since he still has the -2 ac), and IF so, does he then deal double damage (due to Spirited Charge)?
SolenVlos
03-01-07, 04:47 PM If you're going for a melee, be sure to check players handbook II. it has some great options for fighters.

or Tome of battle. I wasn't very keen on it, but many people seems to like it.
FrostHammer
03-01-07, 04:59 PM I didn't mean so much "charge" as an AoO as ... well.

Bob The Squasher charges on his horse, and piles huge damage onto Nate The Squishy. Power Attack, Shock Trooper, Spirited Charge with a Lance, etc etc. Plus the +2 to attack and damage from the charge.

Now, until the beginning of Bob's next turn, he has a penalty to attack rolls (or AC) and a bonus to damage from Power Attack, that will also factor into any AoOs he may take.

Now then. He also has Karmic Strike active. Dave The Squishier steps up on his action that round, and tries to whack Bob for splattering his friend Nale. Dave hits, and so Bob gets an AoO on him. The Power Attack penalties and bonus still apply to Dave for his attack - but does that attack get +2 to attack and damage from the charge (especially since he still has the -2 ac), and IF so, does he then deal double damage (due to Spirited Charge)?

This shouldn't even be asked. The charge is OVER. There is NOTHING about Robilar's gambit/Karmic Strike that says you retain the properties of the attacks from previous rounds. Power Attack stays becuase Power Attack specifically works until the start of your next round.
Halaku
03-01-07, 04:59 PM Though this brings up an idea for a stand still fighter build, maybe take opportunity power and energy push with this?
They try to hit you, and one way or another, they're ending up across the room and its your turn now, which you spend refocusing etc to be ready on their turn, and laughing gotta have the laughing.
StruckingFuggle
03-01-07, 07:42 PM This shouldn't even be asked. The charge is OVER. There is NOTHING about Robilar's gambit/Karmic Strike that says you retain the properties of the attacks from previous rounds. Power Attack stays becuase Power Attack specifically works until the start of your next round.

And yet...

"After moving, you may make a single melee attack. You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll and take a -2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn."

And its not "the previous round", its "before your next action".

Basically ... imagine the initative count goes like this.. :

Random Q. Dudefella
Bob
Nale
Dave

So. On his turn that round, RQD does whatever. Bob charges Nale, and splatters Nale. Until his next action, he has a -2 to his AC from charge, and the +2 to attack and damage. This means when Dave steps up, he's attacking Bob's AC with the charge modifier still in place ... and when Bob gets his counterattack, he has +2 to hit and damage, as well as the PA things - so since the mods from charge still apply, why wouldn't the mods from Spirited Attack, until the rest of the Charge Mods vanish?
FrostHammer
03-01-07, 07:49 PM The charge itself is still over, even if its after-effects, the +2 to hit and -2 to AC still applies.

Look, I'm all for powering up melee characters, but I don't think DMs will rule it your ways.
JTalbain
03-01-07, 08:09 PM Actually if you read closer it says you have a -2 on "the attack roll" not "all attack rolls" followed by "you take a -2 on AC until the start of your next turn". So one condition only applies on the attack and the other applies for the rest of the round until your next action.
stsword
03-01-07, 08:25 PM also, if anyone wants to suggest a good two-handed weapon

Falchion. Great Scimitar if you want to spare a feat for EWP.

Might as well add "I almost always critical" on top of all that extra damage...[/QUOTE]

Eldritch Glaive, for a true WARlock. :)
1hitparry
03-01-07, 09:12 PM So what book arr Karmic Strike and Robilar's Gambit from?
SolenVlos
03-01-07, 09:23 PM ok, I have another doubt.

I was looking on the players'2 and counterattack caught my atention.
from what I understand, you have a single chance of retaliation.

is that any good?
it's at 12th lvl, so you can take robilard's on the same level. what's the point?
SolenVlos
03-02-07, 01:00 PM lil' bump?
runestar
03-03-07, 12:30 AM Not familiar with the counterattack feat. How does it work?
SolenVlos
03-03-07, 10:45 AM Counterattack is not a feat, it's a 12th level class ability for fighters.
a kind of like a level substitution.

you make a single attack as a full round action, and at any time I can make another attack as an immediate action.

So I'm not sure if it's worth taking it.
Bhaal006
03-03-07, 12:57 PM So what book arr Karmic Strike and Robilar's Gambit from?

Robilars gambit i'm not sure about, Karmic strike is from complete warrior.
runestar
03-04-07, 01:12 AM Robilar's gambit should be from PHB2.:)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SolenVlos 02-27-07, 04:28 PM	Hi all. I'm a little confused on the diference of robilard's gambit and karmic strike. The way I read it, to get robilard's AoOs, you must be attacked. And to get Karmic's AoOs, you must be hit. is this correct? I'm going straight fighter and see what happens. also, if anyone wants to suggest a good two-handed weapon (not the spiked chain. I don't like it), or a build or anything for a 14th lvl fighter, themed around formal training and knowledge in battle, fell free. ps: the standard wealth for 14th lvl PCs are 140k, right?
FrostHammer 02-27-07, 05:12 PM	Yep. If you get hit, you get to make 2 AoOs.
Tempest Stormwind 02-27-07, 09:21 PM	According to Customer Service, you don't. Of course, there's no reason whatsoever to assume that being attacked and being hit are the same thing, so CustServ's ruling can go stuff it. See also "Sereg's Complaint" -- essentially, WotC's tendency to say that melee characters' things (like these feats) never stack, while spellcasters' things almost always do.
FrostHammer 02-27-07, 09:27 PM	CustServ says a lot of things. Many people don't listen to them (especially their stuff about Tome of Battle) And yeah, there's a reason the company is called Wizards of the Coast and not Fighters of the Coast.
nameneeded 02-28-07, 12:12 AM	I thought I read somewhere that you could only take 1 AoO on a target unless they do another action that forces another one. Since its 1 attack they only done one action thus only one AoO.
nameneeded 02-28-07, 12:14 AM	I thought I read somewhere that you could only take 1 AoO on a target unless they do another action that forces another one. Since its 1 attack they only done one action thus only one AoO. And remember you can only take 1 AoO per round unless you have feats that allow you to take more like Combat Reflexes. And I don't think Rob's Gambit or Karmic do that.
runestar 02-28-07, 12:20 AM	Robilard's gamble is not contingent on the foe actually hitting you, it just requires that the attempt be made. For karmic strike, the enemy must actually hit you(attack roll > AC). However, with the AC penalty you are taking(which is cumulative), contact seems more likely than not. If you have both, you can make 2 AoOs if the enemy hits you, though you will need combat reflexes and a good dex score to take advantage of this, and both still count towards your limit of AoOs for the round.:) It can be useful for a barb build. They hit you? Just hit them back twice as hard.:D Power attack and deft opportunist are good complements as well.:)
nameneeded 02-28-07, 12:33 AM	You can't use Power Attack for an AoO unless it was active at the top of the inish though. But but mix in Close Quarter combat and if they make a grapple attempt (starts with a touch attack) thats alot of pain!
FrostHammer 02-28-07, 01:42 AM	Take Karmic Strike and never worry about low AC ever again in melee. Power attack and Shock Trooper to your heart's content.
runestar 02-28-07, 02:21 AM	You can't use Power Attack for an AoO unless it was active at the top of the inish though. Yeah, I meant basically leave power attack on 24/7. The +4 to hit for deft opportunist makes up for the -4 you can safely take, giving a net +8 damage bonus for 2-handed weapons.:)
JBW 02-28-07, 07:45 AM	I'm going to agree that any single action - including the result of that action - should only provoke a single AoO. Since the opponent is only taking one action (attacking you) and the two feats basically provide the AoO from that action (with Karmic Strike being limited to attacks that actually hit), I don't believe that these two Feats should stack.
runestar 02-28-07, 08:54 AM	I'm going to agree that any single action - including the result of that action - should only provoke a single AoO. Since the opponent is only taking one action (attacking you) and the two feats basically provide the AoO from that action (with Karmic Strike being limited to attacks that actually hit), I don't believe that these two Feats should stack. I think I know what you are referring to.:) From the SRD, Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity: If you have the Combat Reflexes feat you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). However, I see these 2 feats as 2 separate opportunities, since they are contingent on 2 completely separate criteria. Opponent declares he is attacking you, that first triggers robilar's gambit(first opportunity). If he actually hits you, then karmic strike activates(2nd opportunity). Considering that the 2 conditions are mutually exclusive, I don't see why its either one or the either. They should both work...:confused:
SunTzuWarmaster 02-28-07, 09:27 AM	One of the players in a campaign of mine got tired of me asking him how much he was power attacking for, if he was taking Karmic Strike penalties to AC, ect. He eventually told me: I AM A BARBARIAN. THERE IS ONE WAY TO ATTACK: POWER ATTACK. THERE IS ONE WAY TO TAKE ATTACKS: WITH ANGRY RETALIATION. (mechanically: "I am always power attacking for full, I am always Karmic Striking")
SolenVlos 02-28-07, 02:16 PM	So I think I'm better of with robilard's. thanks for the imputs;
1hitparry 02-28-07, 08:04 PM	Wait, is there a time paradox with Karmic Strike? I'm not totally familiar with the feat, so correct me if I'm wrong. AoOs occur before the action that provoked the AoO starts. So if you get hit with an attack, and use an AoO granted by karmic strike and kill the person that hit you, wouldn't you have killed them before they hit you?
Tempest Stormwind 02-28-07, 08:13 PM	Wait, is there a time paradox with Karmic Strike? I'm not totally familiar with the feat, so correct me if I'm wrong. AoOs occur before the action that provoked the AoO starts. So if you get hit with an attack, and use an AoO granted by karmic strike and kill the person that hit you, wouldn't you have killed them before they hit you? Karmic strike actually says that they have successfully damaged you. You've already been hit, and damage is going to be rolled, but hasn't been yet since the Karmic AoO is triggered. In MtG terminology, the damage is on the stack, and destroying the creature who put it there doesn't remove the damage. The flavor of Karmic Strike is very much like that move seen in several samurai films where they allow themselves to be struck to force an opening in the opponent.
runestar 02-28-07, 10:01 PM	Query about robilar's gambit: if I used the AoO they provoke to successfully trip and/or disarm them(using the extra attack from improved trip), how will this affect the enemy's attack? Say I am a fighter with robilar's gambit. The bugbear swings at me, thus provoking an AoO. I use the AoO to successfully trip him. What happens to him then? Does he receive the appropriate penalties on his attack roll made to hit me? What if I had disarmed him instead?:)
FrostHammer 03-01-07, 01:08 AM	If you trip the opponent, then the opponent is on the ground, and not attacking you. That's how I'd rule it. you have interrupted his attack.
runestar 03-01-07, 02:12 AM	A character knocked prone by a trip can still attack, can't he? Just that he takes a penalty to his attack rolls. If so, would his attack roll after being tripped by virtue of Robilar's gambit factor in this -4 to-hit penalty from being prone?
FrostHammer 03-01-07, 02:28 AM	I'd still rule his attack has been interrupted. Think about it, if you were knocked on your ass while trying to swing at someone, your swing has been stopped. I don't know about you, but I can't make a swing while being tripped.
StruckingFuggle 03-01-07, 03:20 AM	also, if anyone wants to suggest a good two-handed weapon[/QUOTE] Falchion. Great Scimitar if you want to spare a feat for EWP. Might as well add "I almost always critical" on top of all that extra damage...
runestar 03-01-07, 07:27 AM	Next question that came to me while I was showering... If 2 fighters with robilar's gambit and improved combat reflexes(the epic feat which lets you make as many AoOs as you want) attack each other....:P What happens? Does it go something like: 1: I attack you. 2: I make an AoO at you in response. 1: I respond to that AoO with an AoO of my own. 2: I respond to your response with my own AoO. 1: And I respond to ..... 10 years later... 1: I respond to your 1 billionth response to my .... 2: And in response...:D
FrostHammer 03-01-07, 12:23 PM	I'd say in that case, they act more like Karmic Strike for that fighter. Fighter 1 swings at fighter 2, and F2 gets an Aoo at F1. The AoO resolves and the hit either lands or misses BEFORE F1 gets an AoO at F2.
1hitparry 03-01-07, 01:34 PM	Where do Karmic Strike and Robilar's Gambit come from? These feats sound kind like fun. Also, is power attack, shock trooper, Robilar's Gambit, and Karmic strike stupid borken and not fun to play? I'm considering making a melee charcter based around this.
FrostHammer 03-01-07, 01:39 PM	Fighters can't be stupidly broken. And if you go the charger route, I see NO reason why you won't take Karmic or Robilars. Go for it. Don't forget you can still get creamed from ranged attacks and magic.
StruckingFuggle 03-01-07, 02:11 PM	now, if you slap those on a charger (or, god forbid, a cavalier travelling with a white raven warblade) ... and spirited charge someone with PA, shock trooper, everything ... and then someone triggers the Karmic Gambic and hits, do you deal your charge + spirited charge damage on the AoOs, too? o.O
FrostHammer 03-01-07, 03:12 PM	1: I'm not sure Shock Trooper works with mounted charging (I hope it does) 2: No, AoOs allow you to make a single attack option (like trip, disarm, melee attack, whatever). you can't select "charge" as one of your options for AoOs. Remember, Spirited Charge is like you're IMPALING your target with your lance. When you get an AoO from Robilar's gambit, you're more like swatting at the guy as you're riding past him to hit the target. You would, however, get the bonus from Power Attack, if you used that option.
StruckingFuggle 03-01-07, 04:35 PM	2: No, AoOs allow you to make a single attack option (like trip, disarm, melee attack, whatever). you can't select "charge" as one of your options for AoOs. Remember, Spirited Charge is like you're IMPALING your target with your lance. When you get an AoO from Robilar's gambit, you're more like swatting at the guy as you're riding past him to hit the target. You would, however, get the bonus from Power Attack, if you used that option. I didn't mean so much "charge" as an AoO as ... well. Bob The Squasher charges on his horse, and piles huge damage onto Nate The Squishy. Power Attack, Shock Trooper, Spirited Charge with a Lance, etc etc. Plus the +2 to attack and damage from the charge. Now, until the beginning of Bob's next turn, he has a penalty to attack rolls (or AC) and a bonus to damage from Power Attack, that will also factor into any AoOs he may take. Now then. He also has Karmic Strike active. Dave The Squishier steps up on his action that round, and tries to whack Bob for splattering his friend Nale. Dave hits, and so Bob gets an AoO on him. The Power Attack penalties and bonus still apply to Dave for his attack - but does that attack get +2 to attack and damage from the charge (especially since he still has the -2 ac), and IF so, does he then deal double damage (due to Spirited Charge)?
SolenVlos 03-01-07, 04:47 PM	If you're going for a melee, be sure to check players handbook II. it has some great options for fighters. or Tome of battle. I wasn't very keen on it, but many people seems to like it.
FrostHammer 03-01-07, 04:59 PM	I didn't mean so much "charge" as an AoO as ... well. Bob The Squasher charges on his horse, and piles huge damage onto Nate The Squishy. Power Attack, Shock Trooper, Spirited Charge with a Lance, etc etc. Plus the +2 to attack and damage from the charge. Now, until the beginning of Bob's next turn, he has a penalty to attack rolls (or AC) and a bonus to damage from Power Attack, that will also factor into any AoOs he may take. Now then. He also has Karmic Strike active. Dave The Squishier steps up on his action that round, and tries to whack Bob for splattering his friend Nale. Dave hits, and so Bob gets an AoO on him. The Power Attack penalties and bonus still apply to Dave for his attack - but does that attack get +2 to attack and damage from the charge (especially since he still has the -2 ac), and IF so, does he then deal double damage (due to Spirited Charge)? This shouldn't even be asked. The charge is OVER. There is NOTHING about Robilar's gambit/Karmic Strike that says you retain the properties of the attacks from previous rounds. Power Attack stays becuase Power Attack specifically works until the start of your next round.
Halaku 03-01-07, 04:59 PM	Though this brings up an idea for a stand still fighter build, maybe take opportunity power and energy push with this? They try to hit you, and one way or another, they're ending up across the room and its your turn now, which you spend refocusing etc to be ready on their turn, and laughing gotta have the laughing.
StruckingFuggle 03-01-07, 07:42 PM	This shouldn't even be asked. The charge is OVER. There is NOTHING about Robilar's gambit/Karmic Strike that says you retain the properties of the attacks from previous rounds. Power Attack stays becuase Power Attack specifically works until the start of your next round. And yet... "After moving, you may make a single melee attack. You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll and take a -2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn." And its not "the previous round", its "before your next action". Basically ... imagine the initative count goes like this.. : Random Q. Dudefella Bob Nale Dave So. On his turn that round, RQD does whatever. Bob charges Nale, and splatters Nale. Until his next action, he has a -2 to his AC from charge, and the +2 to attack and damage. This means when Dave steps up, he's attacking Bob's AC with the charge modifier still in place ... and when Bob gets his counterattack, he has +2 to hit and damage, as well as the PA things - so since the mods from charge still apply, why wouldn't the mods from Spirited Attack, until the rest of the Charge Mods vanish?
FrostHammer 03-01-07, 07:49 PM	The charge itself is still over, even if its after-effects, the +2 to hit and -2 to AC still applies. Look, I'm all for powering up melee characters, but I don't think DMs will rule it your ways.
JTalbain 03-01-07, 08:09 PM	Actually if you read closer it says you have a -2 on "the attack roll" not "all attack rolls" followed by "you take a -2 on AC until the start of your next turn". So one condition only applies on the attack and the other applies for the rest of the round until your next action.
stsword 03-01-07, 08:25 PM	also, if anyone wants to suggest a good two-handed weapon Falchion. Great Scimitar if you want to spare a feat for EWP. Might as well add "I almost always critical" on top of all that extra damage...[/QUOTE] Eldritch Glaive, for a true WARlock. :)
1hitparry 03-01-07, 09:12 PM	So what book arr Karmic Strike and Robilar's Gambit from?
SolenVlos 03-01-07, 09:23 PM	ok, I have another doubt. I was looking on the players'2 and counterattack caught my atention. from what I understand, you have a single chance of retaliation. is that any good? it's at 12th lvl, so you can take robilard's on the same level. what's the point?
SolenVlos 03-02-07, 01:00 PM	lil' bump?
runestar 03-03-07, 12:30 AM	Not familiar with the counterattack feat. How does it work?
SolenVlos 03-03-07, 10:45 AM	Counterattack is not a feat, it's a 12th level class ability for fighters. a kind of like a level substitution. you make a single attack as a full round action, and at any time I can make another attack as an immediate action. So I'm not sure if it's worth taking it.
Bhaal006 03-03-07, 12:57 PM	So what book arr Karmic Strike and Robilar's Gambit from? Robilars gambit i'm not sure about, Karmic strike is from complete warrior.
runestar 03-04-07, 01:12 AM	Robilar's gambit should be from PHB2.:)