Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sulacu 02-19-08, 09:17 PM	I've been looking into a way to further smoothen character creation when a point buy system is used. I wanted the expected average score to be somewhat reminiscent of the expected value of '4d6 discard lowest and reroll 1s', but on the other hand, I'm not a fan of actually rolling for stats, because someone always ends up on the short and tall ends of the stick. Some players can cope with this gap in power just fine, but some players can't. So, I wanted to introduce a fixed point buy system in the next campaign. (With either 32 or 36 points, as the characters in question are considered unusually skilled), whereby every character may make use of a free 'Racial Bent' racial feat. This feat simulates additional accustomary traits, such as what makes a Half-Orc big and strong, but stupid and ugly. Racial Bent Prerequisites: 1st level (free) Benefits: You may take +2 to a desired ability score at the cost of -2 to another ability score. Special: This feat may only be taken at 1st level, and it may only be taken once. Taking this feat does not count towards your maximum total of feats. The effects of Racial Bent stack fully with any existing racial modifiers. The thought behind the racial bent feat was to allow players to customize their characters more fully. A human that lived in the wild, as a barbarian, may choose a +2 to Con and a -2 to Int at first level. The aforementioned Half-Orc, having grown up in a temple environment, might choose an additional +2 to Wis against a -2 to Dex as to better allow him to fulfill his job as an aspiring cleric. I would like to hear some feedback, though, as to whether this could be considered a 'good idea'.
Sinfire Titan 02-20-08, 01:47 AM	While it is a very thoughtful idea, it only makes an even bigger gap between the races. With Flaws included, Humans still have the advantage, and a bonus to a key score. Casters get a free +1 to their save DCs and bonus spells, and Druids can get by with an even higher Con scores. In all, this feat causes more problems than it solves.
Legdiwena 02-20-08, 07:09 PM	It also leads to unbalancing the stat balance. Boost a primary stat and lowering a dump stat. Might want to look at rules regarding balance of stat bonus/penalty in race creation.
M-bark 02-21-08, 02:36 PM	I'd say you should put in some extra rules for the upping/lowering of stats. +2 Str and -2 Cha, for instance, is not balanced. +2 Str and -2 Int and -2 Wis is, as is +2 Con and -2 Wis. There's a special table in the DMG to determine if upped/lowered stats balance out.
Sildatorak 02-21-08, 09:16 PM	If everyone gets it they will still be balanced with each other, but it is definitely a power boost. The smart players will basically use it to get a 4 point boost to their buy at best (16->18, 10->8), and at worst you are going to be giving out the equivalent of 10 points (18+preexisting racial bonus+2=22, 8->6).
zeratulcraft 02-21-08, 09:25 PM	How about if it just improves the racial abilities already present? +2 Dex and -2 Con becomes +4 Dex and -4 Con.
Silverthumb 02-22-08, 12:25 AM	As someone who plays Dwarven Fighters & Barbarians, this feat is damn near necessary. Why? Steadfast Determination. +2 Con, -2 Wis. Ya know what? I'll take the Magic Blooded template. I'll get a total +4 Con, -4 Wis, and no penalty to my Will saves. I get a -2 to Survival & Listen, but I don't care, I have skill points. And now I have +2 HP / level & my Rage lasts 2 rounds longer. Daddy like. :D
M-bark 02-22-08, 08:09 AM	How about if it just improves the racial abilities already present? +2 Dex and -2 Con becomes +4 Dex and -4 Con. This may seem more balancing, but only with +0 LA races, though, otherwise you could be looking at a giant with MASSIVE ability boosts and the same LA as normal. However, even with +0 LA races you may have trouble, because +4 Con and -4 Cha on a Dwarf or +4 Dex and -4 Con on an Elf will push it more into choosing a class that REALLY benefits from it. Consider the following: Half-Orc Barbarian: 22 Str (18+4), 18 Dex, 18 Con, 3 Int (not lowered because it was already 3), 13 Wis, 1 Cha (cannot be lowered below 1, was 3 before applying racial mods). This was done with 25 point-for-point-buy, starting with 8 points in all stats, and allowing players to lower a stat by one point to add a point to another stat. Or better yet, using a normal 25 point-for-point-buy method: Half-Dragon Dwarf Barbarian: 18 Str, 14 Dex, 18 Con, 8 Int, 12 Wis, 8 Cha (before racial mods); 34 Str, 14 Dex, 26 Con, 12 Int, 12 Wis, 8 Cha. (after twice the racial mods due to the Racial Bent feat) At +3 LA. OUCH.
zeratulcraft 02-22-08, 06:26 PM	This may seem more balancing, but only with +0 LA races, though, otherwise you could be looking at a giant with MASSIVE ability boosts and the same LA as normal. However, even with +0 LA races you may have trouble, because +4 Con and -4 Cha on a Dwarf or +4 Dex and -4 Con on an Elf will push it more into choosing a class that REALLY benefits from it. Consider the following: Half-Orc Barbarian: 22 Str (18+4), 18 Dex, 18 Con, 3 Int (not lowered because it was already 3), 13 Wis, 1 Cha (cannot be lowered below 1, was 3 before applying racial mods). This was done with 25 point-for-point-buy, starting with 8 points in all stats, and allowing players to lower a stat by one point to add a point to another stat. Or better yet, using a normal 25 point-for-point-buy method: Half-Dragon Dwarf Barbarian: 18 Str, 14 Dex, 18 Con, 8 Int, 12 Wis, 8 Cha (before racial mods); 34 Str, 14 Dex, 26 Con, 12 Int, 12 Wis, 8 Cha. (after twice the racial mods due to the Racial Bent feat) At +3 LA. OUCH. Problem with low stats, they're a ***** to roleplay, and are often targeted, forcing you to save or suck/drop unconscious/die.
Silverthumb 02-22-08, 09:11 PM	Problem with low stats, they're a ***** to roleplay, and are often targeted, forcing you to save or suck/drop unconscious/die. They aren't that bad to roleplay, you just have to know what you're working with. Personally, I'd rather play with a 3 Intelligence than a 30.
SolEiji 02-22-08, 11:52 PM	Ha, I remember this, you brought this up to be before. Given the points brought up may I suggest the following: Your +2 -2 adjustment may not be in an ability score which you have adjustments already. That will prevent the +4 Con -4 Cha dump dwarf and the like. Though, I disagree with others (and perhaps the DMG) with the 'uselessness' of Cha and it not being even to the other abilities. It's powers are generally more subtle but all as much useful as Int or Str.
Divisionbyzer0 02-22-08, 11:54 PM	Point buy is boring IMO. Racial bent is already encapsulated in racial paragon classes, not to mention clever use of flaws, and traits. This feat is a bad idea, especially if it's free.
M-bark 02-23-08, 09:19 AM	They aren't that bad to roleplay, you just have to know what you're working with. Personally, I'd rather play with a 3 Intelligence than a 30. Because a smart person knows that playing an even smarter person is much harder than playing a dumber person.
Silverthumb 02-25-08, 04:00 PM	Because a smart person knows that playing an even smarter person is much harder than playing a dumber person. Right. If I could roleplay outside of my own knowledge, well, I'd probably be Pun-Pun. Sadly... :weep: