Ranged Disarm Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ranged Disarm Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tonil
03-03-07, 11:44 PM I am considering taking the Ranged Disarm feat (Complete Warrior) for my Ranger/Fighter. He is dedicated to perfecting his archery, and I have already taken the usual archery feats. I have two questions about this feat.

Disarm requires an opposed attack roll to disarm an opponent, and according to the PHB you get a -4 when using a light weapon (no bonus when using a one-handed weapon, +4 when using two-handed). The Ranged Disarm feat does not specify if this would use the -4 or no bonus (I assume we would not use two-handed). I found one thread where people suggested one use the -4 for an arrow, but I wondered if anyone had further experience using this feat, and what they usually used.

My second question is more general. My idea in taking this feat is to make up for the lack of major damage from a bow. The idea is to disarm the enemy before he cuts my melee companions to shreds. But...how often does this work? That is, it looks good on paper, but perhaps the enemy is rarely disarmed in actual play.

If you have used this feat please tell me what you think of it, and what whether you would take another ranged feat instead. The other feats I am thinking of are Far Shot or Shot-on-the-Run (or ranged weapon mastery if my DM allows it). Maybe Improved Rapid Shot, but my attack bonus is already above average.

Any ranged suggestions that may be more effective than Ranged Disarm? I use bow 99% of the time, usually within point blank distance (so Far Shot may not be worth it).

BTW: I have Point Blank, Rapid Shot, Focus, Specialization, Precise Shot, Manyshot, Defensive Archery, and will get Improved Precise Shot.
Shadowfax7
03-04-07, 09:59 AM Disarm requires an opposed attack roll to disarm an opponent, and according to the PHB you get a -4 when using a light weapon (no bonus when using a one-handed weapon, +4 when using two-handed). The Ranged Disarm feat does not specify if this would use the -4 or no bonus (I assume we would not use two-handed). I found one thread where people suggested one use the -4 for an arrow, but I wondered if anyone had further experience using this feat, and what they usually used.The -4 for a light weapon (arrow) is one opinion as you have seen.

You dismissed the idea of using +4 for a 2h weapon, but I say why ??

IMO it depends on the ranged weapon and how you use it. A bow (no matter what type) is used 2h, and it is the weapon being used for a ranged disarm (an arrow is ammunition, not a weapon). A crossbow can be used 1h or 2h. A sling is used 1h, and maybe can even be considered a light weapon.

It's definitely within DM's call territory.
Kursk
03-04-07, 10:51 AM The -4 for a light weapon (arrow) is one opinion as you have seen.

You dismissed the idea of using +4 for a 2h weapon, but I say why ??

IMO it depends on the ranged weapon and how you use it. A bow (no matter what type) is used 2h, and it is the weapon being used for a ranged disarm (an arrow is ammunition, not a weapon). A crossbow can be used 1h or 2h. A sling is used 1h, and maybe can even be considered a light weapon.

It's definitely within DM's call territory.

In this case you aren't using the "weapon" to disarm but the ammunition. It would be a light one handed.
Tonil
03-04-07, 11:04 AM The -4 for a light weapon (arrow) is one opinion as you have seen.

You dismissed the idea of using +4 for a 2h weapon, but I say why ??

IMO it depends on the ranged weapon and how you use it. A bow (no matter what type) is used 2h, and it is the weapon being used for a ranged disarm (an arrow is ammunition, not a weapon).

I am not sure why, it just made sense (hence my posting the question).

I do remember reading a blurb from WotC in which they made a distinction between the "type" of weapon and how it is "used." I think this was in relation to a trip or disarm question. They made the point that a longword is a one-handed weapon "type" but can be "used" two-handed. So, when disarming one-handed do not add a bonus, when disarming two-handed use the +4 bonus.

So, as stated above, I guess the question is whether to use the bow or the ammunition as the basis. I will defer to other opinions on this.
Qwicksilver
03-06-07, 12:22 PM I would say that it is the arrow that counts as the weapon, thus it is a light weapon and incurs a -4 penalty. The bow isn't really the operating part of a weapon any more than the handle is for a sword, yes it's part of the weapon and the part that you interact with, but it's not what's doing the damage.

I have seen the feat used once just recently in a game we were playing. I don't know if he imposed a -4 penalty, but with a high enough attack for the ranger, it probably will only serve to dampen what seems to be an effective feat. I was fighting a lich with my scythe, wielding it, and because of the vagaries of ranged disarming game mechanics my huge two-handed weapon got dinged with a small arrow and fell out of my hands.

As the dm said "and in something that seems to defy the laws of physics, because it does, your scythe gets hit by an arrow and falls out of your hands"

It's only one case, but I would see the -4 to attack as at least imparting some kind of pretense towards realism.
Kursk
03-06-07, 03:55 PM http://www.bowhuntinginfo.com/KineticEnergyNew.htm

:D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tonil 03-03-07, 11:44 PM	I am considering taking the Ranged Disarm feat (Complete Warrior) for my Ranger/Fighter. He is dedicated to perfecting his archery, and I have already taken the usual archery feats. I have two questions about this feat. Disarm requires an opposed attack roll to disarm an opponent, and according to the PHB you get a -4 when using a light weapon (no bonus when using a one-handed weapon, +4 when using two-handed). The Ranged Disarm feat does not specify if this would use the -4 or no bonus (I assume we would not use two-handed). I found one thread where people suggested one use the -4 for an arrow, but I wondered if anyone had further experience using this feat, and what they usually used. My second question is more general. My idea in taking this feat is to make up for the lack of major damage from a bow. The idea is to disarm the enemy before he cuts my melee companions to shreds. But...how often does this work? That is, it looks good on paper, but perhaps the enemy is rarely disarmed in actual play. If you have used this feat please tell me what you think of it, and what whether you would take another ranged feat instead. The other feats I am thinking of are Far Shot or Shot-on-the-Run (or ranged weapon mastery if my DM allows it). Maybe Improved Rapid Shot, but my attack bonus is already above average. Any ranged suggestions that may be more effective than Ranged Disarm? I use bow 99% of the time, usually within point blank distance (so Far Shot may not be worth it). BTW: I have Point Blank, Rapid Shot, Focus, Specialization, Precise Shot, Manyshot, Defensive Archery, and will get Improved Precise Shot.
Shadowfax7 03-04-07, 09:59 AM	Disarm requires an opposed attack roll to disarm an opponent, and according to the PHB you get a -4 when using a light weapon (no bonus when using a one-handed weapon, +4 when using two-handed). The Ranged Disarm feat does not specify if this would use the -4 or no bonus (I assume we would not use two-handed). I found one thread where people suggested one use the -4 for an arrow, but I wondered if anyone had further experience using this feat, and what they usually used.The -4 for a light weapon (arrow) is one opinion as you have seen. You dismissed the idea of using +4 for a 2h weapon, but I say why ?? IMO it depends on the ranged weapon and how you use it. A bow (no matter what type) is used 2h, and it is the weapon being used for a ranged disarm (an arrow is ammunition, not a weapon). A crossbow can be used 1h or 2h. A sling is used 1h, and maybe can even be considered a light weapon. It's definitely within DM's call territory.
Kursk 03-04-07, 10:51 AM	The -4 for a light weapon (arrow) is one opinion as you have seen. You dismissed the idea of using +4 for a 2h weapon, but I say why ?? IMO it depends on the ranged weapon and how you use it. A bow (no matter what type) is used 2h, and it is the weapon being used for a ranged disarm (an arrow is ammunition, not a weapon). A crossbow can be used 1h or 2h. A sling is used 1h, and maybe can even be considered a light weapon. It's definitely within DM's call territory. In this case you aren't using the "weapon" to disarm but the ammunition. It would be a light one handed.
Tonil 03-04-07, 11:04 AM	The -4 for a light weapon (arrow) is one opinion as you have seen. You dismissed the idea of using +4 for a 2h weapon, but I say why ?? IMO it depends on the ranged weapon and how you use it. A bow (no matter what type) is used 2h, and it is the weapon being used for a ranged disarm (an arrow is ammunition, not a weapon). I am not sure why, it just made sense (hence my posting the question). I do remember reading a blurb from WotC in which they made a distinction between the "type" of weapon and how it is "used." I think this was in relation to a trip or disarm question. They made the point that a longword is a one-handed weapon "type" but can be "used" two-handed. So, when disarming one-handed do not add a bonus, when disarming two-handed use the +4 bonus. So, as stated above, I guess the question is whether to use the bow or the ammunition as the basis. I will defer to other opinions on this.
Qwicksilver 03-06-07, 12:22 PM	I would say that it is the arrow that counts as the weapon, thus it is a light weapon and incurs a -4 penalty. The bow isn't really the operating part of a weapon any more than the handle is for a sword, yes it's part of the weapon and the part that you interact with, but it's not what's doing the damage. I have seen the feat used once just recently in a game we were playing. I don't know if he imposed a -4 penalty, but with a high enough attack for the ranger, it probably will only serve to dampen what seems to be an effective feat. I was fighting a lich with my scythe, wielding it, and because of the vagaries of ranged disarming game mechanics my huge two-handed weapon got dinged with a small arrow and fell out of my hands. As the dm said "and in something that seems to defy the laws of physics, because it does, your scythe gets hit by an arrow and falls out of your hands" It's only one case, but I would see the -4 to attack as at least imparting some kind of pretense towards realism.
Kursk 03-06-07, 03:55 PM	http://www.bowhuntinginfo.com/KineticEnergyNew.htm :D