Ranged Flank [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ranged Flank [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
spyderfreek
06-28-07, 10:53 AM I thought I once read a feat, or maybe a class ability, that allows for ranged flanking. Does it exist or am I as crazy as loon?

Spyder
Kouk
06-28-07, 11:00 AM You can accomplish this with the alternate ranger ability in PHB2.
spyderfreek
06-28-07, 11:15 AM But I believe that is for only one attack, yes? Also, I do not have the levels left to devote 4 to ranger.
Salla
06-28-07, 11:29 AM The only ways I'm aware of to 'ranged flank', which requires threatening with a ranged weapon, are the Arrow Mind spell from Spell Compendium and the Peerless Archer Prestige Class from ... some FR book.
Kouk
06-28-07, 11:45 AM You definitely want this to gain Flanking benefits? If you just want Sneak Attack that can be done more easily.
tarkin
06-28-07, 11:47 AM There are two different things.

1. Ability to THREATEN.

2. Ability to get a flanking bonus.

Both of these are Powers available from a Prestige Class. I could maybe see a regular class grant them as a special ability, but they are clearly stronger than a feat.
Inigo Carmine
06-28-07, 12:31 PM Unless otherwise stated, flanking is a melee attack. Even the Arrow Mind spell and the Peerless Archer prestige class don't allow you to flank with a ranged weapon (though they allow you to threaten, and thus help an ally get a flanking attack).

I somewhat agree with tarkin that it's doable as a class ability, but it is a potentially powerful one in the right hands (aka a class with sneak attack), and so I would make it a moderately level one for a non sneak attacking class (like lv 6-10 for a ranger) or a high level one for a sneak attack class (lv 12-16 for a rogue).

It'd work pretty well as an alternate special ability for the rogue class (the kind they get at high levels), but I wouldn't like to see it taken at 10; maybe require 9+ BAB or something?
spyderfreek
06-28-07, 12:36 PM Well, other than 1d8 from precision, I get no SA. I am looking for a way to threaten from a ranged position.

I don't know about you, but if I knew a person with a bow/gun was behind me it would make me think twice about turing my back on them to attack the guy infront of me. Maybe moving to the side so I could at least attempt to see both.
Kouk
06-28-07, 01:03 PM Well, other than 1d8 from precision, I get no SA. I am looking for a way to threaten from a ranged position.

I don't know about you, but if I knew a person with a bow/gun was behind me it would make me think twice about turing my back on them to attack the guy infront of me. Maybe moving to the side so I could at least attempt to see both.

So you are an Order of the Bow Initiate? I guess Arrow Mind from the Spell Compendium is your best bet, if you are a level 4 Ranger or level 1 Sorc/Wiz, or if you special-order an item.

That, or take 8 levels of the Peerless Archer from Silver Marches.

And if you know a guy is behind you with a loaded ... something, you do take steps to protect yourself, usually by finding cover. A bow isn't quite so "in your face" as if you were next to him though.
tarkin
06-28-07, 01:08 PM The "think twice" argument is a good one for flanking, but not for threatening. It does not related to AoO's really.

But "think twice" just implies a bonus to hit, NOT the very specific bonus to hit dealing with flanking, which is esential to AoOs.

In other words, you have convinced me it is reasonable to get a bonus to hit in the situation you describe, but not that it should count as flanking or anything related to flanking.

I could easily see a feat called "Sniper shot" or something like it that provides +2 circumstance bonus to hit against anyone that is engaged in melee combat with someone besides you.

But that +2 to hit would not count as flanking, would not trigger Sneak Attack or similar abilities.
spyderfreek
06-28-07, 01:17 PM hrmmmm. I need to ponder on this a bit. +2 when "flanking" without flanking. Must be within 30ft seems to apply also.

And yes I am taking 2 levels of OotBI (see sig for full build), but only for the melee archery thing. I am not a fan of getting hit while I shoot. BUt I also took Battle Sorc, so I only get 1 first level spell. and Truestrike has been most helpful.
Noobofsonicbooms
06-28-07, 02:29 PM How bout' Elocator from Psionics expanded at 4th level (or some thing like that) You can choose a square to flank from when you are across the room.
Hammersoul
06-28-07, 03:39 PM You can accomplish this with the alternate ranger ability in PHB2.

Distracting Attack only adjudicates flank benefits to eligible allies of you actually meleeing the opponent. It never gives any flank bonuses to you.
Hammersoul
06-28-07, 03:42 PM How bout' Elocator from Psionics expanded at 4th level (or some thing like that) You can choose a square to flank from when you are across the room.

The Flanker ability of the Elocator (and the Tactical Soldier and some other classes I believe) allows you to designate a square from which you effectively flanks from the squares adjacent to the one you are on
Vrael
06-28-07, 03:52 PM The Flanker ability of the Elocator (and the Tactical Soldier and some other classes I believe) allows you to designate a square from which you effectively flanks from the squares adjacent to the one you are on

True, which means you could blast away from 10 feet away. Sounds fun for flavor.
Hammersoul
06-28-07, 04:03 PM Well, I'm not sure if this is the intent of the ability. Seems to me that you need to be in melee to use it at all. But by RAW is not completely clear. True that it'd be fun if it works, though. :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
spyderfreek 06-28-07, 10:53 AM	I thought I once read a feat, or maybe a class ability, that allows for ranged flanking. Does it exist or am I as crazy as loon? Spyder
Kouk 06-28-07, 11:00 AM	You can accomplish this with the alternate ranger ability in PHB2.
spyderfreek 06-28-07, 11:15 AM	But I believe that is for only one attack, yes? Also, I do not have the levels left to devote 4 to ranger.
Salla 06-28-07, 11:29 AM	The only ways I'm aware of to 'ranged flank', which requires threatening with a ranged weapon, are the Arrow Mind spell from Spell Compendium and the Peerless Archer Prestige Class from ... some FR book.
Kouk 06-28-07, 11:45 AM	You definitely want this to gain Flanking benefits? If you just want Sneak Attack that can be done more easily.
tarkin 06-28-07, 11:47 AM	There are two different things. 1. Ability to THREATEN. 2. Ability to get a flanking bonus. Both of these are Powers available from a Prestige Class. I could maybe see a regular class grant them as a special ability, but they are clearly stronger than a feat.
Inigo Carmine 06-28-07, 12:31 PM	Unless otherwise stated, flanking is a melee attack. Even the Arrow Mind spell and the Peerless Archer prestige class don't allow you to flank with a ranged weapon (though they allow you to threaten, and thus help an ally get a flanking attack). I somewhat agree with tarkin that it's doable as a class ability, but it is a potentially powerful one in the right hands (aka a class with sneak attack), and so I would make it a moderately level one for a non sneak attacking class (like lv 6-10 for a ranger) or a high level one for a sneak attack class (lv 12-16 for a rogue). It'd work pretty well as an alternate special ability for the rogue class (the kind they get at high levels), but I wouldn't like to see it taken at 10; maybe require 9+ BAB or something?
spyderfreek 06-28-07, 12:36 PM	Well, other than 1d8 from precision, I get no SA. I am looking for a way to threaten from a ranged position. I don't know about you, but if I knew a person with a bow/gun was behind me it would make me think twice about turing my back on them to attack the guy infront of me. Maybe moving to the side so I could at least attempt to see both.
Kouk 06-28-07, 01:03 PM	Well, other than 1d8 from precision, I get no SA. I am looking for a way to threaten from a ranged position. I don't know about you, but if I knew a person with a bow/gun was behind me it would make me think twice about turing my back on them to attack the guy infront of me. Maybe moving to the side so I could at least attempt to see both. So you are an Order of the Bow Initiate? I guess Arrow Mind from the Spell Compendium is your best bet, if you are a level 4 Ranger or level 1 Sorc/Wiz, or if you special-order an item. That, or take 8 levels of the Peerless Archer from Silver Marches. And if you know a guy is behind you with a loaded ... something, you do take steps to protect yourself, usually by finding cover. A bow isn't quite so "in your face" as if you were next to him though.
tarkin 06-28-07, 01:08 PM	The "think twice" argument is a good one for flanking, but not for threatening. It does not related to AoO's really. But "think twice" just implies a bonus to hit, NOT the very specific bonus to hit dealing with flanking, which is esential to AoOs. In other words, you have convinced me it is reasonable to get a bonus to hit in the situation you describe, but not that it should count as flanking or anything related to flanking. I could easily see a feat called "Sniper shot" or something like it that provides +2 circumstance bonus to hit against anyone that is engaged in melee combat with someone besides you. But that +2 to hit would not count as flanking, would not trigger Sneak Attack or similar abilities.
spyderfreek 06-28-07, 01:17 PM	hrmmmm. I need to ponder on this a bit. +2 when "flanking" without flanking. Must be within 30ft seems to apply also. And yes I am taking 2 levels of OotBI (see sig for full build), but only for the melee archery thing. I am not a fan of getting hit while I shoot. BUt I also took Battle Sorc, so I only get 1 first level spell. and Truestrike has been most helpful.
Noobofsonicbooms 06-28-07, 02:29 PM	How bout' Elocator from Psionics expanded at 4th level (or some thing like that) You can choose a square to flank from when you are across the room.
Hammersoul 06-28-07, 03:39 PM	You can accomplish this with the alternate ranger ability in PHB2. Distracting Attack only adjudicates flank benefits to eligible allies of you actually meleeing the opponent. It never gives any flank bonuses to you.
Hammersoul 06-28-07, 03:42 PM	How bout' Elocator from Psionics expanded at 4th level (or some thing like that) You can choose a square to flank from when you are across the room. The Flanker ability of the Elocator (and the Tactical Soldier and some other classes I believe) allows you to designate a square from which you effectively flanks from the squares adjacent to the one you are on
Vrael 06-28-07, 03:52 PM	The Flanker ability of the Elocator (and the Tactical Soldier and some other classes I believe) allows you to designate a square from which you effectively flanks from the squares adjacent to the one you are on True, which means you could blast away from 10 feet away. Sounds fun for flavor.
Hammersoul 06-28-07, 04:03 PM	Well, I'm not sure if this is the intent of the ability. Seems to me that you need to be in melee to use it at all. But by RAW is not completely clear. True that it'd be fun if it works, though. :D