Rapid Reload w/Elven Double Bow [Archive] - Wizards Community

Rapid Reload w/Elven Double Bow [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lucas Blackstone
04-13-07, 06:31 PM I don't suppose there is an official ruling on this. When they made Rapid Reload I don't think there was really any bows that needed a move action to load an arrow into so it couldn't have been included as an option.

I almost think that Quick Draw would be applicable also, but Rapid Reload would be more appropriate flavor wise.
Kouk
04-14-07, 04:33 AM I don't think quick draw can do anything because drawing ammo is free, it's just that loading it isn't always.

The rule specifically says to choose a specific crossbow, so as written you can't use it for a double bow. If the DM wants to houserule it, fine.

I don't think there would be an official ruling because the double bow seems to have been left in version 3.0.
Lucas Blackstone
04-14-07, 08:50 AM It was my understanding, which could be totally wrong I might add, that if there wasn't a replacement/re-writing of something in 3.5 that the old rules were still applicable.

The reason I suggested quick draw was more of a logic's sake. If I could use a free action to draw my entire bow and take a shot with the feat, it stood to reason the feat would let me draw an arrow and take a shot with it. But like I said, I understand how this would fall under the domain of Rapid Shot, except it looked like Rapid Shot was cut and pasted right from 3.0 to 3.5.

Oh well, I was just hoping for a way to use the bow's ability in the same round along with other attacks, ie 6+ BAB, or rapid shot.
Kouk
04-15-07, 04:18 AM It was my understanding, which could be totally wrong I might add, that if there wasn't a replacement/re-writing of something in 3.5 that the old rules were still applicable.

Well, that is true within the same version. If something is written in one 3.5 book then it would be changed by a later printing of another 3.5 book. I don't think it carries from 3.0 to 3.5 by default.

I can see how rapid shot can seem a bit fuzzy with quick draw, but it has to do with drawing, not loading and so they made rapid reload.

Rapid Reload doesn't seem to have existed in version 3.0, at least not in my PHB 3.0. The Arms and Equipment Guide which is the latest printing of the Elven Double Bow (to my knowledge) is also a 3.0 book. In 3.5 they introduced Rapid Reload, so if things from 3.0 were supposed to carry over unless stated otherwise then there in fact was a kind of bow that took a move action to load. Which would mean that by specifically writing that Rapid Reload works for crossbows only was intentional (or they forgot about the elven double bow).

If WotC decides to reprint the elven double bow for some reason, then it would include a note about whether Rapid Reload could apply to it or not. They reprint things constantly from older versions, so who knows.

If the DM of the game chooses to allow the Elven Double Bow from 3.0, then I wouldn't say it is unreasonable for Rapid Reload to work on the second string. Of course it depends on the DM. If Rapid Reload was allowed, then you would theoretically be able to double the arrows you fire with that bow on any attack action. A full attack that was 3 arrows could become 6, albeit with across the board -2. If Rapid Reload is not allowed, then a full attack that is normally 3 arrows would be 4, and 2 of those arrows would have penalties to hit, and the other 2 would fire normally, and it would still take a move action to set it up to fire 4 arrows again.

By the text of the double bow, it seems that if you normally are granted 2 attacks for having a BAB of +6, you should be able to make a full attack with 3 arrows, or a single attack of 2 arrows if you already have it loaded. Rapid Shot would add another attack on top of the full attack of 3 arrows for 4.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lucas Blackstone 04-13-07, 06:31 PM	I don't suppose there is an official ruling on this. When they made Rapid Reload I don't think there was really any bows that needed a move action to load an arrow into so it couldn't have been included as an option. I almost think that Quick Draw would be applicable also, but Rapid Reload would be more appropriate flavor wise.
Kouk 04-14-07, 04:33 AM	I don't think quick draw can do anything because drawing ammo is free, it's just that loading it isn't always. The rule specifically says to choose a specific crossbow, so as written you can't use it for a double bow. If the DM wants to houserule it, fine. I don't think there would be an official ruling because the double bow seems to have been left in version 3.0.
Lucas Blackstone 04-14-07, 08:50 AM	It was my understanding, which could be totally wrong I might add, that if there wasn't a replacement/re-writing of something in 3.5 that the old rules were still applicable. The reason I suggested quick draw was more of a logic's sake. If I could use a free action to draw my entire bow and take a shot with the feat, it stood to reason the feat would let me draw an arrow and take a shot with it. But like I said, I understand how this would fall under the domain of Rapid Shot, except it looked like Rapid Shot was cut and pasted right from 3.0 to 3.5. Oh well, I was just hoping for a way to use the bow's ability in the same round along with other attacks, ie 6+ BAB, or rapid shot.
Kouk 04-15-07, 04:18 AM	It was my understanding, which could be totally wrong I might add, that if there wasn't a replacement/re-writing of something in 3.5 that the old rules were still applicable. Well, that is true within the same version. If something is written in one 3.5 book then it would be changed by a later printing of another 3.5 book. I don't think it carries from 3.0 to 3.5 by default. I can see how rapid shot can seem a bit fuzzy with quick draw, but it has to do with drawing, not loading and so they made rapid reload. Rapid Reload doesn't seem to have existed in version 3.0, at least not in my PHB 3.0. The Arms and Equipment Guide which is the latest printing of the Elven Double Bow (to my knowledge) is also a 3.0 book. In 3.5 they introduced Rapid Reload, so if things from 3.0 were supposed to carry over unless stated otherwise then there in fact was a kind of bow that took a move action to load. Which would mean that by specifically writing that Rapid Reload works for crossbows only was intentional (or they forgot about the elven double bow). If WotC decides to reprint the elven double bow for some reason, then it would include a note about whether Rapid Reload could apply to it or not. They reprint things constantly from older versions, so who knows. If the DM of the game chooses to allow the Elven Double Bow from 3.0, then I wouldn't say it is unreasonable for Rapid Reload to work on the second string. Of course it depends on the DM. If Rapid Reload was allowed, then you would theoretically be able to double the arrows you fire with that bow on any attack action. A full attack that was 3 arrows could become 6, albeit with across the board -2. If Rapid Reload is not allowed, then a full attack that is normally 3 arrows would be 4, and 2 of those arrows would have penalties to hit, and the other 2 would fire normally, and it would still take a move action to set it up to fire 4 arrows again. By the text of the double bow, it seems that if you normally are granted 2 attacks for having a BAB of +6, you should be able to make a full attack with 3 arrows, or a single attack of 2 arrows if you already have it loaded. Rapid Shot would add another attack on top of the full attack of 3 arrows for 4.