Rapid Shot and Two-Weapon Fighting? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Rapid Shot and Two-Weapon Fighting? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
GorunNova
03-14-08, 11:46 AM Hi every one,

I wantet to play a new charakter who is specialized in Throwing Weapons but when i asket my gm if the concept of the charakter is ok he pointet out that i cant use Rapid Shot and Two Weapon Fighting toghter becos they both requier a fullround action to complet.

I think he is wrong in this point.
The feats say that they need a full attack to be used not a full rounde action.

look at the feats:

RAPID SHOT [GENERAL]
Benefit: You can get one extra attack per round with a ranged weapon. The attack is at your highest base attack bonus, but each attack you make in that round (the extra one and the normal ones) takes a –2 penalty. You must use the full attack action to use this feat.

and

TWO-WEAPON FIGHTING
If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. You suffer a –6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a –10 penalty to the attack with your off hand when you fight this way.

Am i right or is my GM?
jaelis
03-14-08, 12:00 PM You are right. They both give you an extra attack when you take a full attack action, neither requires a unique full round action of their own. So the extra attacks and penalties will stack.

You can stack both with a flurry of blows as well for extra throwing fun.
Shaggy_Shaggs
03-14-08, 12:24 PM Two-Weapon Fighting and Rapid Shot both modify an existing full attack action in a non-exclusive way. They can be used together. Note that this is not good at all for your attack roll modifier.
Hsien
03-14-08, 01:29 PM Yea it does really hurt the odds of hitting.
Take 5 levels of Master Thrower and then Weak Touch trick; use Touch AC.
kamronshepard
03-14-08, 03:26 PM Full Attack

If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough, because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon or for some special reason you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks. You do not need to specify the targets of your attacks ahead of time. You can see how the earlier attacks turn out before assigning the later ones.

From the SRD. A full attack is a full-round action.
Thor_Axe
03-14-08, 10:48 PM Two Weapon Fighting and Rapid shot do not stack. Both have basically the same same effect; in fact, there descriptions are nearly the same.

Rapid Shot: You gain one extra attack per round with a ranged weapon.
Two Weapon Fighting: ...You can make one extra attack per round with the second weapon.

They have the same effect for different types of weapons. You could have both and get an extra attack when either meleeing or throwing, but not both.
jaelis
03-15-08, 12:10 AM Per the FAQ:

Can I throw weapons with both hands? What happens if I also use Rapid Shot?

The two-weapon fighting rules allow you to use thrown weapons in both hands. As described on page 160 in the Player’s Handbook, a dart or a shuriken is treated as a light weapon for the purpose of two-weapon fighting, while bolas, javelins, nets, or slings are treated as one-handed weapons. For
other thrown weapons, compare the weapon’s weight to those listed here. Generally, a thrown weapon that weighs less than 1 pound (at Medium size) is effectively a light weapon for this purpose. Weapons already defined as light weapons are also considered light.

As long as you can draw additional thrown weapons as a free action (such as from the Quick Draw feat), there’s no reason you can’t also use the Rapid Shot feat to get an extra throw with your primary hand. For example, if a 4th-level fighter has Quick Draw, Rapid Shot, and Two-Weapon Fighting, he can throw two daggers with his primary hand and a third with his off hand. His adjusted base attack bonus is +0 with each dagger (+4 base attack bonus, –2 for using a light weapon in his off hand, –2 for using Rapid Shot).
Baninor
03-16-08, 08:44 AM Looks like jaelis beat me to the punch.
AtsuiShoto
03-16-08, 02:45 PM His adjusted base attack bonus is +0 with each daggerGAH! Sometimes I hate the FAQ. The example fighter's BAB is going to stay EXACTLY the same, no matter what he does, unless he somehow suffers negative levels or something crazy that would reduce his fighter hitdice. His attack bonus (not "Base Attack Bonus") would suffer a -2 penalty for using each of the feats. That's it.
StruckingFuggle
03-16-08, 03:50 PM Other people beat me to it more, but just for the sake of clarity:

You could have both and get an extra attack when either meleeing or throwing, but not both.

... you know that you can make both melee and ranged attacks in the same full attack action, right?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GorunNova 03-14-08, 11:46 AM	Hi every one, I wantet to play a new charakter who is specialized in Throwing Weapons but when i asket my gm if the concept of the charakter is ok he pointet out that i cant use Rapid Shot and Two Weapon Fighting toghter becos they both requier a fullround action to complet. I think he is wrong in this point. The feats say that they need a full attack to be used not a full rounde action. look at the feats: RAPID SHOT [GENERAL] Benefit: You can get one extra attack per round with a ranged weapon. The attack is at your highest base attack bonus, but each attack you make in that round (the extra one and the normal ones) takes a –2 penalty. You must use the full attack action to use this feat. and TWO-WEAPON FIGHTING If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. You suffer a –6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a –10 penalty to the attack with your off hand when you fight this way. Am i right or is my GM?
jaelis 03-14-08, 12:00 PM	You are right. They both give you an extra attack when you take a full attack action, neither requires a unique full round action of their own. So the extra attacks and penalties will stack. You can stack both with a flurry of blows as well for extra throwing fun.
Shaggy_Shaggs 03-14-08, 12:24 PM	Two-Weapon Fighting and Rapid Shot both modify an existing full attack action in a non-exclusive way. They can be used together. Note that this is not good at all for your attack roll modifier.
Hsien 03-14-08, 01:29 PM	Yea it does really hurt the odds of hitting. Take 5 levels of Master Thrower and then Weak Touch trick; use Touch AC.
kamronshepard 03-14-08, 03:26 PM	Full Attack If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough, because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon or for some special reason you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks. You do not need to specify the targets of your attacks ahead of time. You can see how the earlier attacks turn out before assigning the later ones. From the SRD. A full attack is a full-round action.
Thor_Axe 03-14-08, 10:48 PM	Two Weapon Fighting and Rapid shot do not stack. Both have basically the same same effect; in fact, there descriptions are nearly the same. Rapid Shot: You gain one extra attack per round with a ranged weapon. Two Weapon Fighting: ...You can make one extra attack per round with the second weapon. They have the same effect for different types of weapons. You could have both and get an extra attack when either meleeing or throwing, but not both.
jaelis 03-15-08, 12:10 AM	Per the FAQ: Can I throw weapons with both hands? What happens if I also use Rapid Shot? The two-weapon fighting rules allow you to use thrown weapons in both hands. As described on page 160 in the Player’s Handbook, a dart or a shuriken is treated as a light weapon for the purpose of two-weapon fighting, while bolas, javelins, nets, or slings are treated as one-handed weapons. For other thrown weapons, compare the weapon’s weight to those listed here. Generally, a thrown weapon that weighs less than 1 pound (at Medium size) is effectively a light weapon for this purpose. Weapons already defined as light weapons are also considered light. As long as you can draw additional thrown weapons as a free action (such as from the Quick Draw feat), there’s no reason you can’t also use the Rapid Shot feat to get an extra throw with your primary hand. For example, if a 4th-level fighter has Quick Draw, Rapid Shot, and Two-Weapon Fighting, he can throw two daggers with his primary hand and a third with his off hand. His adjusted base attack bonus is +0 with each dagger (+4 base attack bonus, –2 for using a light weapon in his off hand, –2 for using Rapid Shot).
Baninor 03-16-08, 08:44 AM	Looks like jaelis beat me to the punch.
AtsuiShoto 03-16-08, 02:45 PM	His adjusted base attack bonus is +0 with each daggerGAH! Sometimes I hate the FAQ. The example fighter's BAB is going to stay EXACTLY the same, no matter what he does, unless he somehow suffers negative levels or something crazy that would reduce his fighter hitdice. His attack bonus (not "Base Attack Bonus") would suffer a -2 penalty for using each of the feats. That's it.
StruckingFuggle 03-16-08, 03:50 PM	Other people beat me to it more, but just for the sake of clarity: You could have both and get an extra attack when either meleeing or throwing, but not both. ... you know that you can make both melee and ranged attacks in the same full attack action, right?