Post/Author/DateTime	Post
AkaKageWarrior 04-02-07, 05:19 PM	hi, assume the following: - character is fighting with a reach weapon (and only reach, not spiked chain) - character has improved unarmed strike and here are my questions: does this character threaten adjacent squares because of unarmed strike? if he uses an unarmed strike to make an AoO, does he now get the penalty for two-weapon fighting? or does he only threaten if two-weapon fighting has been announced at the start of the round (including the penalties)? please help, AKW PS: yes, Iknow short haft, but it's not fast enough because of the swift action needed (I propose "Impr Short Haft" => Prereq: Short Haft, BAB+6, Benefit: threaten / attack within reach)
jaelis 04-02-07, 05:26 PM	According to the FAQ (and I think it's a legit interpretation of the rules), you always threaten with any weapon you have available, and TWF penalties never apply to AoOs. So your answers are "yes", "no", and "no".
AkaKageWarrior 04-03-07, 02:55 AM	According to the FAQ (and I think it's a legit interpretation of the rules), you always threaten with any weapon you have available, and TWF penalties never apply to AoOs. So your answers are "yes", "no", and "no". thanks jaelis! I like that answer :) and will try to convince my DM to play it that way! AKW
Frugal 04-03-07, 10:39 AM	Aren't most/all reach weapons 2 handed? Unless he's a monk and able to use other body parts for unarmed strikes (elbows, knees, head butts) I'd say he can't make unarmed strikes with his hands occupied so then he doesn't threaten.
Zaistars69 04-03-07, 10:45 AM	Aren't most/all reach weapons 2 handed? Unless he's a monk and able to use other body parts for unarmed strikes (elbows, knees, head butts) I'd say he can't make unarmed strikes with his hands occupied so then he doesn't threaten. Unarmed strike in the SRD says it is punches, kicks, headbuts, etc so you can unarmed strike with any part of your body that can be used as a weapon.
tarkin 04-03-07, 12:57 PM	Jaelis, I Checked and you are WRONG about TWF and AoO. Page 28 of the FAQ clearly states that if you use TWF, and you take an AoO, The penalty from the TWF will apply to your AoO. You are playing with a house rule. TWF penalties clearly apply to AoOs. -------------- As for the idea of using Unarmed Strikes to take an AoO while using a reach weapon, that is supported by the FAQ, but not directly stated. Specifically it says that having your arms full does not prevent you from using Unarmed Strikes. This does not outright say "it threatens". There are many cases where you can make an attack but do not threaten (for example, holding a two handed weapon in one hand means you don't threaten, but can as a free action shift grip to two handed and make an attack.) Of course, you must have take the AoO with the unarmed strike. Some DM's may rule against allowing you to threaten if your hands are full, saying it is equivelent to the case above (holding a two handed weapon in one hand).
jaelis 04-03-07, 01:13 PM	My apologies, it is in the RoTG article, not the FAQ. To wit, Once you take a two-weapon fighting penalty, the penalty applies to all the attacks you make with that hand during your current action. It does not apply to attacks you make during some other character's turn. For example, say your torch-wielding swordfighter from the previous example has a base attack bonus of +10. With the full attack action, the character could make two attacks with the sword: one at +10 and the other at +5. If you opt to throw in an off-hand attack with the torch, the -4 penalty for your primary hand applies to both attacks, dropping your attack bonus to +6 (10-4 = 6) and +1 (5-4 = 1). When you attack with the torch, you make only a single attack (because the two-weapon fighting option allows you only one extra attack) at -2 (you use your full attack bonus for the single attack, so that's 10 -8 for an off-hand attack with a light weapon and an additional -4 for the improvised weapon). Some attack penalties you voluntarily assume, such as the penalty for defensive fighting (see pages 140 and 143 in the Player's Handbook), apply until your next turn, but two weapon penalties are not one of them. If, after you made two-weapon attacks with your sword and torch, a foe later provokes an attack of opportunity from you that same round, you can strike that foe with your longsword with no two-weapon penalty at all. (You also can use just the torch, also with no two-weapon penalty, though you still take the -4 penalty for an off-hand attack; you also still take the -4 penalty for an improvised weapon for a total penalty of -8.)
jaelis 04-03-07, 01:18 PM	Page 28 of the FAQ clearly states that if you use TWF, and you take an AoO, The penalty from the TWF will apply to your AoO. Sorry Tarkin, is it page 28 of the current FAQ? The closest I see is When fighting with two weapons, does the Combat Expertise feat apply to both weapons individually or together? For example, do I take a –2 on attack rolls for both weapons to add +2 Armor Class? Or do I take –2 on attack rolls for both weapons for a +4 bonus to Armor Class? You get the AC bonus once. The attack penalty applies to all attacks you make until your next turn. If you use two weapons to make extra attacks, the penalty applies to the attacks from both weapons. It also applies to any attacks of opportunity you make before your next turn. but I would say the "penalty" referred to here is pretty clearly the CE penalty, not the TWF penalty. Certainly the CE penalty applies to AoOs. The other place in the FAQ that might possibly have some bearing is in the armor spikes discussion (pg 41): If you attack only with your armor spikes during your turn (or use the armor spikes to make an attack of opportunity), you use them just like a regular weapon. It is easy to read this to mean that when you make an AoO, it doesn't matter whether you were TWFing during your turn. A real statement would certainly be nice though. You are playing with a house rule. Perhaps, but not that one. I play that the TWF penalty applies until your next turn. I just don't read the rules as saying that. (Specifically, I don't think the PHB rules say one way or the other and the FAQ is vague at best, making the RoTG article the best ruling we have.)
tarkin 04-03-07, 01:42 PM	I am using the FAQ from 03/23/2007 It said "If you use two weapons to make extra attacks, the penalty applies to the attacks from both weapons. It also applies to any attacks of opportunity you make before your next turn". However, after re-reading it, I realized the penalty they were discussing was the Combat Expertise penalty, although the words themselves do not make it clear. ---------- Nevertheless, I see ZERO reason to claim that the TWF penalty does not apply to AoOs. TWF says You suffer a -6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a -10 penalty to the attack with your off hand when you fight this way. It makes no mention at all of 'during that round', or 'for the full round attack'. Instead it says regular attack or attacks with your primary hand. An AoO is an attack with your primary hand, it gets the penalty (if you want to use your off hand, you should take the off hand penalty, which is always at least as bad as the primary hand penalty.).
jaelis 04-03-07, 02:44 PM	It makes no mention at all of 'during that round', or 'for the full round attack'. True, but neither does it say 'until your next turn' either, as for instance Combat Expertise and Power Attack do. Instead it says regular attack or attacks with your primary hand. It's also fair to read this as 'regular attack or attacks with your primary hand', and claim that an AoO is not a regular attack. (IE, you take the penalty on a regular attack or any regular attacks.) Personally, I find this a bit more natural reading. I'll say again, IMO the actual rules and the FAQ itself are not clear. The RoTG article is, so take it for what it's worth.