Reach weapons and shields [Archive] - Wizards Community

Reach weapons and shields [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dnarris
06-06-07, 03:58 PM Might anyone know any legal way to wield a weapon with reach (All weapons with reach I know are two-handed) and still use a shield.

I asked this under another thread, but it wasn't on the same topic as the question I had asked in that thread.

I'm making a dwarven defender and I'd like for him to have the ability to threaten at least a 10' area while he's in his defensive stance....since it'll be a long while before I get the ability to use a 5' step each turn while in defensive stance.

I'm not worried about not being able to use the weapon on foes adjacent to me since I'll be able to use my shield as my close up weapon with improved shield bash.
AAB
06-06-07, 04:15 PM well, you could just take lunging strike from PHB2, but you'd be limited to 1x/turn and you wouldn't actually threaten those extra squares.

there's no way that i know of.
Dnarris
06-06-07, 04:33 PM Hrm, I'm guess there's no having my cake and eating it too.
InkBlot
06-06-07, 05:09 PM I, and a couple other people too, already answered this question in your other thread. There are several ways to use a reach weapon and a shield at the same time.

Dungeon Master's Guide, page 145, the kusari gama. It's a light weapon with reach, it can trip, and it gets a +2 bonus to disarm checks.

The kusari gama, as it is presented in the DMG, is purely a fantasy weapon. This is how the kusari gama is actually wielded. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPdEgw_WBZs) And this is an adorable little girl performing Wushu. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faxW0GcyyDo&mode=related&search=)

There's also a power in the Mind's Eye, which was reprinted with small alterations in Complete Psionic, which increases reach... You would need at least 4 levels in Psychic Warrior to nab it.

Reach (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827e) is the Mind's Eye version (last power on the page), it works by making your arms longer. Extend Reach is the less creepy Complete Psionic version, with which you telekinetically wield your weapon further away.

You could also use a dancing weapon.
CryoSilver
06-06-07, 05:14 PM Buckler + Imp Buckler Defense, and describe it as a shield.
Pentar
06-06-07, 05:22 PM I'm not worried about not being able to use the weapon on foes adjacent to me since I'll be able to use my shield as my close up weapon with improved shield bash.

If the people on these forums can't figure it out, then you might be SOL :)

Instead of tying up a lot of Feats trying to get a Reach weapon in one hand, why not just take Quick Draw and an armload of Throwing Axes?
Dnarris
06-06-07, 05:28 PM Heh, I suppose I could look into those options.

I wonder how many throwing axes are reasonable to carry though. ^_^
Pentar
06-06-07, 05:35 PM Heh, I suppose I could look into those options.

I wonder how many throwing axes are reasonable to carry though. ^_^

Well if you have the money, a few with the Returning feature may be good. A crossbow is useful too, esp. with the Rapid Reload feat. If you have a spellcaster, there are some great short-distance battlefield teleport spells available now (things like Benign Transposition the like).
Dnarris
06-06-07, 05:36 PM I'll have to keep the return feature in mind....I'd love to have a dwarven waraxe with throwing and returning on it ^_^
Vharuck
06-06-07, 05:40 PM Heh, I suppose I could look into those options.

I wonder how many throwing axes are reasonable to carry though. ^_^

Three would make sense to me. You have to think, "When will I use them?" You will throw axes when opponents are close enough (not only because of maximum range but because after a certain distance your chances of hitting are crap).

Any further than this distance, use a bow.

Any closer, you're in melee.
Dnarris
06-06-07, 05:47 PM This is true Vharuck, but the reason I ask this is that my dwarven defender will basically be stuck in place when using his defensive stance ability.

Being able to attack at a distance while still using my shield would be very beneficial. So a bow would not be a likely option.

I had wanted to threaten a larger range in order to get more AoO while in defensive stance.
Vharuck
06-06-07, 05:56 PM This is true Vharuck, but the reason I ask this is that my dwarven defender will basically be stuck in place when using his defensive stance ability.

Being able to attack at a distance while still using my shield would be very beneficial. So a bow would not be a likely option.

I had wanted to threaten a larger range in order to get more AoO while in defensive stance.

While not really in dwarven flavor, javelins are better if you plan to use thrown weapons exclusively with ranged attacks. They cost 1gp versus the throwing axe's 8gp (maybe important if starting at level 1), have a range increment three times that of the throwing axe (allowing a maximum range of 150 ft versus the throwing axe's 50 ft), deal the same damage (albeit piercing), and make more sense realistically to carry a bundle of.

The throwing axe, however, does have the positive of being a melee weapon as well.
Rowangar
06-06-07, 10:25 PM have someone cast enlarge on you or get an item that has an equivalent effect. otherwise, no dice.
Obi-Wan Shinobi
06-06-07, 10:39 PM what about the whip or whip-dagger???
AAB
06-06-07, 10:40 PM you don't threaten an area with those weapons.
Borris
06-06-07, 10:44 PM You can wield a small-sized reach weapon with a -2 penalty and still threaten as with a usual reach weapon.

Of course, the problem then is that you don't threaten anything that's right next to you, and you a shield bash might not be the most effective thing. I'd go with armor spikes or armor blades.

And consider the kusari-gama from the DMG. It costs you a feat, but doesn't have the -2 penalty a wrong-sized reach weapon would have, and offers a nice list of small bonuses.
itwasntme
06-06-07, 10:51 PM i rather ues a whip considering most other "Reach Weapons" can only Target that 10 ft pieace away from you

like LongSpear "This weapon has reach up to 10 feet away however you cant use it agest an adjacent foe" meaning "Oh no you have a LongSpear ... uh 5 ft step full round attack? Oh with my other feats you provoke if you move (Feats from PHB 2 and Complete Warrior)

besides 15 ft is alot nicer then 10 feet away
+1 flaming, frost, merciful, shock, vicious whip
can be a nice whip plus considering Whips are Slashing Weapons (Normol Whips) You could have Brillent Energy on them and Bypass Natrual Armor Class or even Vorpol
even though this stuff is expensive ... but hey earlyer on it could be a great Triping weapon and when triping starts becomeing pointless you can now get Vorpol/Brillent Energy!

or there are other ways around such things you could use Monkey Grip Feet with a Melee Reach weapon take -2 to hit and use it as a 1 handed weapon

though i rather have Monkey Grip on a Great Axe and do 3d6 damage

sure the -2 to hit is horrible early levels but when your high levels and considering your more then likly a tank your going to be hitting eveything so might as well injoy the extra damage or whatever beside thanks to that feet i was able to make a good Duel wielding Basterd Sword Character considering my negitives where outset by my positives! the DM hated my character and flat out told me to never do that again :weep: oh well it was fun while it lasted
hreslingozer
06-06-07, 11:01 PM Here's how:

new tactical feat: Shield and spear mastery

Prereq's: Sheild specialization, shield bash, weapon focus (longspear), weapon specialization (longspear), greater weapon specialization (longspear).

Description: as long as you move less than 5 feet during your turn, you can move and attack with your longspear and still retain your shield bonus to AC. If you move more than 5 feet during your turn, you may not attack or threaten with your longspear.
runestar
06-06-07, 11:02 PM Are animated shields out of your budget?
Obi-Wan Shinobi
06-07-07, 09:59 AM you don't threaten an area with those weapons.

oooopps. i fergot about that part.

b ut the easiest way has already been said- use a buckler with the Improved Buckler Defense. it loses out on 1 pt of AC to a large shield but weighs less and you can use a 2-handed weapon still.

to be able to still threaten at 5' with a reach weapon: use armor spikes, improved unarmed strike, short haft, quick draw, lunging strike, animated shield.

all i can think of right now........
Ogg
06-07-07, 10:26 AM what about the whip or whip-dagger???

Yeah, the whip is a 1h reach weapon. Of course if they're wearing armor you don't damage them unless you modify it.

The whip-dagger fixed this but I don't think there's a 3.5 version other then the scourge which doesn't have reach.
Father Dale
06-07-07, 11:45 AM Spiked Chain plus a buckler and improved buckler defense.

In the dragonlance campaign setting there is a weapon called a "toothchain." It is a one handed exotic weapon that deals 1d6 damage, but it works almost exactly the same as a spiked chain, including the 10ft while threatening adjacent squares. Human (Plains Nomads) treat the weapon as a martial weapon. Its a pretty neat weapon, and I've had several builds that try to take advantage of it, although I've never played them (dual wielding Duskblade, dual wielding melee scout/dervish, etc..).

Throwing weapons with Quick Draw work good too, but you don't threaten the area around so no AoOs.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dnarris 06-06-07, 03:58 PM	Might anyone know any legal way to wield a weapon with reach (All weapons with reach I know are two-handed) and still use a shield. I asked this under another thread, but it wasn't on the same topic as the question I had asked in that thread. I'm making a dwarven defender and I'd like for him to have the ability to threaten at least a 10' area while he's in his defensive stance....since it'll be a long while before I get the ability to use a 5' step each turn while in defensive stance. I'm not worried about not being able to use the weapon on foes adjacent to me since I'll be able to use my shield as my close up weapon with improved shield bash.
AAB 06-06-07, 04:15 PM	well, you could just take lunging strike from PHB2, but you'd be limited to 1x/turn and you wouldn't actually threaten those extra squares. there's no way that i know of.
Dnarris 06-06-07, 04:33 PM	Hrm, I'm guess there's no having my cake and eating it too.
InkBlot 06-06-07, 05:09 PM	I, and a couple other people too, already answered this question in your other thread. There are several ways to use a reach weapon and a shield at the same time. Dungeon Master's Guide, page 145, the kusari gama. It's a light weapon with reach, it can trip, and it gets a +2 bonus to disarm checks. The kusari gama, as it is presented in the DMG, is purely a fantasy weapon. This is how the kusari gama is actually wielded. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPdEgw_WBZs) And this is an adorable little girl performing Wushu. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faxW0GcyyDo&mode=related&search=) There's also a power in the Mind's Eye, which was reprinted with small alterations in Complete Psionic, which increases reach... You would need at least 4 levels in Psychic Warrior to nab it. Reach (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827e) is the Mind's Eye version (last power on the page), it works by making your arms longer. Extend Reach is the less creepy Complete Psionic version, with which you telekinetically wield your weapon further away. You could also use a dancing weapon.
CryoSilver 06-06-07, 05:14 PM	Buckler + Imp Buckler Defense, and describe it as a shield.
Pentar 06-06-07, 05:22 PM	I'm not worried about not being able to use the weapon on foes adjacent to me since I'll be able to use my shield as my close up weapon with improved shield bash. If the people on these forums can't figure it out, then you might be SOL :) Instead of tying up a lot of Feats trying to get a Reach weapon in one hand, why not just take Quick Draw and an armload of Throwing Axes?
Dnarris 06-06-07, 05:28 PM	Heh, I suppose I could look into those options. I wonder how many throwing axes are reasonable to carry though. ^_^
Pentar 06-06-07, 05:35 PM	Heh, I suppose I could look into those options. I wonder how many throwing axes are reasonable to carry though. ^_^ Well if you have the money, a few with the Returning feature may be good. A crossbow is useful too, esp. with the Rapid Reload feat. If you have a spellcaster, there are some great short-distance battlefield teleport spells available now (things like Benign Transposition the like).
Dnarris 06-06-07, 05:36 PM	I'll have to keep the return feature in mind....I'd love to have a dwarven waraxe with throwing and returning on it ^_^
Vharuck 06-06-07, 05:40 PM	Heh, I suppose I could look into those options. I wonder how many throwing axes are reasonable to carry though. ^_^ Three would make sense to me. You have to think, "When will I use them?" You will throw axes when opponents are close enough (not only because of maximum range but because after a certain distance your chances of hitting are crap). Any further than this distance, use a bow. Any closer, you're in melee.
Dnarris 06-06-07, 05:47 PM	This is true Vharuck, but the reason I ask this is that my dwarven defender will basically be stuck in place when using his defensive stance ability. Being able to attack at a distance while still using my shield would be very beneficial. So a bow would not be a likely option. I had wanted to threaten a larger range in order to get more AoO while in defensive stance.
Vharuck 06-06-07, 05:56 PM	This is true Vharuck, but the reason I ask this is that my dwarven defender will basically be stuck in place when using his defensive stance ability. Being able to attack at a distance while still using my shield would be very beneficial. So a bow would not be a likely option. I had wanted to threaten a larger range in order to get more AoO while in defensive stance. While not really in dwarven flavor, javelins are better if you plan to use thrown weapons exclusively with ranged attacks. They cost 1gp versus the throwing axe's 8gp (maybe important if starting at level 1), have a range increment three times that of the throwing axe (allowing a maximum range of 150 ft versus the throwing axe's 50 ft), deal the same damage (albeit piercing), and make more sense realistically to carry a bundle of. The throwing axe, however, does have the positive of being a melee weapon as well.
Rowangar 06-06-07, 10:25 PM	have someone cast enlarge on you or get an item that has an equivalent effect. otherwise, no dice.
Obi-Wan Shinobi 06-06-07, 10:39 PM	what about the whip or whip-dagger???
AAB 06-06-07, 10:40 PM	you don't threaten an area with those weapons.
Borris 06-06-07, 10:44 PM	You can wield a small-sized reach weapon with a -2 penalty and still threaten as with a usual reach weapon. Of course, the problem then is that you don't threaten anything that's right next to you, and you a shield bash might not be the most effective thing. I'd go with armor spikes or armor blades. And consider the kusari-gama from the DMG. It costs you a feat, but doesn't have the -2 penalty a wrong-sized reach weapon would have, and offers a nice list of small bonuses.
itwasntme 06-06-07, 10:51 PM	i rather ues a whip considering most other "Reach Weapons" can only Target that 10 ft pieace away from you like LongSpear "This weapon has reach up to 10 feet away however you cant use it agest an adjacent foe" meaning "Oh no you have a LongSpear ... uh 5 ft step full round attack? Oh with my other feats you provoke if you move (Feats from PHB 2 and Complete Warrior) besides 15 ft is alot nicer then 10 feet away +1 flaming, frost, merciful, shock, vicious whip can be a nice whip plus considering Whips are Slashing Weapons (Normol Whips) You could have Brillent Energy on them and Bypass Natrual Armor Class or even Vorpol even though this stuff is expensive ... but hey earlyer on it could be a great Triping weapon and when triping starts becomeing pointless you can now get Vorpol/Brillent Energy! or there are other ways around such things you could use Monkey Grip Feet with a Melee Reach weapon take -2 to hit and use it as a 1 handed weapon though i rather have Monkey Grip on a Great Axe and do 3d6 damage sure the -2 to hit is horrible early levels but when your high levels and considering your more then likly a tank your going to be hitting eveything so might as well injoy the extra damage or whatever beside thanks to that feet i was able to make a good Duel wielding Basterd Sword Character considering my negitives where outset by my positives! the DM hated my character and flat out told me to never do that again :weep: oh well it was fun while it lasted
hreslingozer 06-06-07, 11:01 PM	Here's how: new tactical feat: Shield and spear mastery Prereq's: Sheild specialization, shield bash, weapon focus (longspear), weapon specialization (longspear), greater weapon specialization (longspear). Description: as long as you move less than 5 feet during your turn, you can move and attack with your longspear and still retain your shield bonus to AC. If you move more than 5 feet during your turn, you may not attack or threaten with your longspear.
runestar 06-06-07, 11:02 PM	Are animated shields out of your budget?
Obi-Wan Shinobi 06-07-07, 09:59 AM	you don't threaten an area with those weapons. oooopps. i fergot about that part. b ut the easiest way has already been said- use a buckler with the Improved Buckler Defense. it loses out on 1 pt of AC to a large shield but weighs less and you can use a 2-handed weapon still. to be able to still threaten at 5' with a reach weapon: use armor spikes, improved unarmed strike, short haft, quick draw, lunging strike, animated shield. all i can think of right now........
Ogg 06-07-07, 10:26 AM	what about the whip or whip-dagger??? Yeah, the whip is a 1h reach weapon. Of course if they're wearing armor you don't damage them unless you modify it. The whip-dagger fixed this but I don't think there's a 3.5 version other then the scourge which doesn't have reach.
Father Dale 06-07-07, 11:45 AM	Spiked Chain plus a buckler and improved buckler defense. In the dragonlance campaign setting there is a weapon called a "toothchain." It is a one handed exotic weapon that deals 1d6 damage, but it works almost exactly the same as a spiked chain, including the 10ft while threatening adjacent squares. Human (Plains Nomads) treat the weapon as a martial weapon. Its a pretty neat weapon, and I've had several builds that try to take advantage of it, although I've never played them (dual wielding Duskblade, dual wielding melee scout/dervish, etc..). Throwing weapons with Quick Draw work good too, but you don't threaten the area around so no AoOs.