Post/Author/DateTime	Post
s4ndm4n 03-01-07, 09:40 AM	read lips is a 3rd edition skill, available only 2 rogues. Do u know any kind of WotC game rule or mechanic (and house rules, if u like) that substitudes the read lips skill in 3.5 ? it was really fun 2 play....2 bad it didnt appear in 3.5.......my guess is that a spot check does the job, but i'd like 2 hear something more specialized...... tnx in advance
Emeramber 03-01-07, 09:52 AM	Technically, I believe anyone can do it with a spot check. If, like me, you think it should be a special knack as opposed to something anyone can do, the new Skill Tricks mechanic (Complete Scoundrel) can be useful. Give it prereqs of Spot 5 and Sense Motive 5, and make it one of the few that can be used at will. Someone else would be better at designing an exact mechanic of rolls, but as a quick shot, I'd say DC 10 check Spot for optimum conditions (subject facing you, 10' or less away) and add 5 for each 45 degrees of rotation, with 135+ being an auto-fail, and add spot modifiers for distance.
s4ndm4n 03-01-07, 10:05 AM	the skill trick idea rocks . I agree it shouldn't be something any1 with spot ranks could do 'cause the original was only for rogues.... what about making a rogue Special Ability that *revives* the original versions of both read lips and innuendo? anyway, the skill trick idea still rocks...
Zherog 03-01-07, 10:09 AM	You're new, so I hope you take criticism well... Please spell out words. There's no reason to right "any1" instead of "anyone," or "2" instead of "to." When you're in a chat room, and speed is important, these sorts of "abbreviations" make sense. But this isn't a chat room. You have all the time in the world to type out those extra character. *** As to your question, as Emeramber pointed out, Read Lips was folded into Spot in 3.5. Read Lips: To understand what someone is saying by reading lips, you must be within 30 feet of the speaker, be able to see him or her speak, and understand the speaker’s language. (This use of the skill is language-dependent.) The base DC is 15, but it increases for complex speech or an inarticulate speaker. You must maintain a line of sight to the lips being read. If your Spot check succeeds, you can understand the general content of a minute’s worth of speaking, but you usually still miss certain details. If the check fails by 4 or less, you can’t read the speaker’s lips. If the check fails by 5 or more, you draw some incorrect conclusion about the speech. The check is rolled secretly in this case, so that you don’t know whether you succeeded or missed by 5.
s4ndm4n 03-01-07, 10:33 AM	Im new to the forum, not to the game. I know read lips is incorporated into spot for 3.5, I just want it to be more specialized,for rogues, as the original, or for scoundrels, as Emeramber pointed out , because it was a "rogue only" skill in 3.5. If u have in mind any related house rule of yours, or any suggestion u want 2 make, as an alternative to the already existing mechanic, please post it right away. Im open to criticism and i think you are right about "abbreviations".Thanks for posting.
risner 03-01-07, 01:55 PM	If u have in mind any related house rule of yours, or any suggestion u want 2 make, What does "u" mean? What are two makes?
JoAT 03-01-07, 02:36 PM	I don't really see a huge problem with leaving it as it is. Check out how many people have Spot available as a class skill - this is, for the most part, Rogues, Rangers, and Monks. For a very basic check ("Rosebud..."), it's easy, and most people can try it untrained, but for the harder stuff (plans, conversations, etc), you're looking at a DC of 20, 25 maybe up to 30 if they're drunk and wearing facepaint... Only the skill-monkeys can really make it, since only they have the skill.
Vegepygmy 03-01-07, 03:52 PM	What does "u" mean? What are two makes?Cut him some slack. He has acknowledged that he shouldn't use "abbreviations," but it's going to take some time for him to break the habit.
Lazzar 03-03-07, 08:18 PM	read lips is a 3rd edition skill, available only 2 rogues. Do u know any kind of WotC game rule or mechanic (and house rules, if u like) that substitudes the read lips skill in 3.5 ? it was really fun 2 play....2 bad it didnt appear in 3.5.......my guess is that a spot check does the job, but i'd like 2 hear something more specialized...... tnx in advance Spot check DC15 within 30 feet.
AbyssKnight 03-03-07, 11:34 PM	Since class exclusive skills have gone the way of the dodo in 3.5 as well, even if Read Lips was still a separate skill any class could take ranks in it. So personally, I wouldn't worry about it. But the idea of making it a rogue class feature could work if you really want it to be exclusive to the class. Since it is so minor, I don't think there would be balance problems.