Reducing BAB [Archive] - Wizards Community

Reducing BAB [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SpawnOfMorgoth
06-23-07, 12:40 PM Both the Combat Expertise and Power Attack feats say the same thing. By reducing your BAB you gain 1(BAB):1 AC (up to 5) for CE and 1:1 (1:2 for 2 handed) for PA.

Would a 4th lvl fighter with both of these feats be able to lower his BAB by 4 and get both +4AC and +4/+8 damage? By RAW I think he would get the two-for-one special.

The feats do not say 'spend' the BAB (meaning it 'is a direct cost') it only says that you voluntarily lower it to get the advantage(s).

Slightly cheesy, but is this RAW?

It sure would increase the survivability of AoO artists and give Frenzied Berserkers a little more AC cushion.
NeueRegel
06-23-07, 01:42 PM I swear I saw this spoken about mayhaps 3 years ago here on the forums. I could be wrong, and just remembering incorrectly.

Anyway, To answer your question, I think not. I am positive that the feats can be used at the same time, but, I think you have to spend the BAB's separately. Say, 4 for CE, 3 for PA, or whatever.

I think. They are totally opposite, afterall. One defense, one offense.
Pentar
06-23-07, 01:48 PM NeueRegal is correct. You must penalize your BAB separately for each Feat. This was asked a few weeks ago on the forums and the answer was universally the same.
Nom
06-23-07, 08:22 PM Both the Combat Expertise and Power Attack feats say the same thing. By reducing your BAB you gain 1(BAB):1 AC (up to 5) for CE and 1:1 (1:2 for 2 handed) for PA.Actually, they say nothing of the sort.

CE allows you to apply a penalty of up to 5 on your attack rolls and apply the same absolute value as a bonus to your AC.

PA allows you penalty of up to your BAB on your attack rolls and apply a bonus (same or double absolute value) to your damage rolls.

(1) neither modifies your BAB; they both modify your attack rolls (yes, the difference is very significant).

(2) PA is limited to a value equal to your BAB. CE is limited to 5.

(3) The penalties are from different sources. They can (and will, if you do both at once) stack. The bonuses apply to different things. PA's bonus is unnamed. CE's bonus is Dodge.
Someone
06-24-07, 01:31 AM And likewise, the example 4th level fighter at full PA and CE has taken his +4 to hit and turned it into a -4. If he was hitting them on 10 before, he's hitting them on 18 now.
jaelis
06-24-07, 03:02 AM For the obligatory rules quote:

Stacking
In most cases, modifiers to a given check or roll stack (combine for a cumulative effect) if they come from different sources and have different types (or no type at all), but do not stack if they have the same type or come from the same source.

The penalties for CE and PA come from different sources and have no type. Thus they stack.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SpawnOfMorgoth 06-23-07, 12:40 PM	Both the Combat Expertise and Power Attack feats say the same thing. By reducing your BAB you gain 1(BAB):1 AC (up to 5) for CE and 1:1 (1:2 for 2 handed) for PA. Would a 4th lvl fighter with both of these feats be able to lower his BAB by 4 and get both +4AC and +4/+8 damage? By RAW I think he would get the two-for-one special. The feats do not say 'spend' the BAB (meaning it 'is a direct cost') it only says that you voluntarily lower it to get the advantage(s). Slightly cheesy, but is this RAW? It sure would increase the survivability of AoO artists and give Frenzied Berserkers a little more AC cushion.
NeueRegel 06-23-07, 01:42 PM	I swear I saw this spoken about mayhaps 3 years ago here on the forums. I could be wrong, and just remembering incorrectly. Anyway, To answer your question, I think not. I am positive that the feats can be used at the same time, but, I think you have to spend the BAB's separately. Say, 4 for CE, 3 for PA, or whatever. I think. They are totally opposite, afterall. One defense, one offense.
Pentar 06-23-07, 01:48 PM	NeueRegal is correct. You must penalize your BAB separately for each Feat. This was asked a few weeks ago on the forums and the answer was universally the same.
Nom 06-23-07, 08:22 PM	Both the Combat Expertise and Power Attack feats say the same thing. By reducing your BAB you gain 1(BAB):1 AC (up to 5) for CE and 1:1 (1:2 for 2 handed) for PA.Actually, they say nothing of the sort. CE allows you to apply a penalty of up to 5 on your attack rolls and apply the same absolute value as a bonus to your AC. PA allows you penalty of up to your BAB on your attack rolls and apply a bonus (same or double absolute value) to your damage rolls. (1) neither modifies your BAB; they both modify your attack rolls (yes, the difference is very significant). (2) PA is limited to a value equal to your BAB. CE is limited to 5. (3) The penalties are from different sources. They can (and will, if you do both at once) stack. The bonuses apply to different things. PA's bonus is unnamed. CE's bonus is Dodge.
Someone 06-24-07, 01:31 AM	And likewise, the example 4th level fighter at full PA and CE has taken his +4 to hit and turned it into a -4. If he was hitting them on 10 before, he's hitting them on 18 now.
jaelis 06-24-07, 03:02 AM	For the obligatory rules quote: Stacking In most cases, modifiers to a given check or roll stack (combine for a cumulative effect) if they come from different sources and have different types (or no type at all), but do not stack if they have the same type or come from the same source. The penalties for CE and PA come from different sources and have no type. Thus they stack.