Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kyoti00 06-05-07, 06:36 PM	For those of you not familiar with the feat, it basicly lets you sacrifice 4 AC to gain to ability to take an attack of oppertunity any time someone attacks you. The questions is, is it worth sacraficing the feat or the AC. I am looking to take this with my Monk at level 15 so I can maximise my use in combat both disarming and dealing damage.
Random Hero 06-05-07, 06:41 PM	Depends alot on the build - Mostly you only see it for Battlefield control builds < Triping mostly > And for ToB characters to burn up Maneuvers. Is it worth it? its kinda in the air for a Monk with Just disarm - cause a good portion of Monsters are not Armed. If you used both trip And disarm, id say got for it.
Nezkrul 06-05-07, 06:46 PM	base attack requirement of +12 means you cant take the feat till 18th level as a straight monk. other than that, to make the most of it you need at least an 18 dexterity, and you need to get the enemy's attention. if you can't hit, he'll ignore you and go for the fighter who doesn't miss - wasted feat. If every melee in your party takes the feat, well, the monsters won't have a good time :D
MerlintheTuna 06-05-07, 07:36 PM	It's an incredible build for a charge-based character, as it grants him additional opportunities to unleash his (2d6) + (near-infinite) damage. Aside from that, it's okay if you've got great AC or frequent miss chances. Beyond that, you may be hurting yourself more than you're helping. With that (plus the steep BAB requirement) in mind, it's not a very good feat for a Monk.
Mark_Constantino 06-05-07, 07:36 PM	It sure is worth it! If you are dueling with a monster and you know you can hit it pretty easily with your hightest base attack bonus, then it is better than a full attack action because all your AoO's are at your highest BAB. That's as long as you have the feat that allows you your dex bonus in number of attacks of opportunity, so Robilar's Gambit really costs two feats.
Lixith 06-05-07, 07:37 PM	it sounds nice to me, especially if your armor class is already low, meaning you've focused on other things(like offense), and you figure you're going to be hit most of the time anyway. Is there a limit to it's use? or is it really ANY time someone hits you? (can u use it more than once a round basically?)
Mark_Constantino 06-05-07, 07:52 PM	it sounds nice to me, especially if your armor class is already low, meaning you've focused on other things(like offense), and you figure you're going to be hit most of the time anyway. Is there a limit to it's use? or is it really ANY time someone hits you? (can u use it more than once a round basically?) It's nice anytime you figure you can absorb at least as much damage as you can dish out, or dish out more damage than you can absorb. Say you have a two handed weapon and your opponent has a one handed weapon, it's worth Robilar's Gambit to you because you do more damage, and you hit more often too. I played a duel with a guy who used it, and he beat my pants because he could dish out more damage than I could, AND on MY turn to act! On his turn he full-rounded me into attrition . . .
Squall255 06-05-07, 08:19 PM	My friend once made a char that focused on using this feat. He was a gnome blade bravado, made permanantly tiny. His strategy: get in their square, goad them into attacking him, and then AoO them, and make their ally's hit them. The DM hated this char.
NerdNumber1 06-05-07, 08:19 PM	it sounds nice to me, especially if your armor class is already low, meaning you've focused on other things(like offense), and you figure you're going to be hit most of the time anyway. Is there a limit to it's use? or is it really ANY time someone hits you? (can u use it more than once a round basically?) It acts like normal AoOs, so once per turn (unless you have combat reflexes, which you should if you want to take full benefit from the feat). One thing I want to know is if opposing AoOs count to provoke your AoOs. I could just see a barbarian charging through an army, returning every weak attack with a one hit kill. (Can you add powerful charge damage for AoO threatened while charging? That would be cruel.)
MerlintheTuna 06-05-07, 08:24 PM	(Can you add powerful charge damage for AoO threatened while charging? That would be cruel.)Yeah. Those effects last for the entire round.
Qwicksilver 06-05-07, 08:26 PM	As I recall, there's another feat called karmic strike, which does the same thing, except with less of a penalty. Correct me if i'm wrong but robilar's gambit gave your attackers +4 to attack and damage against you, for a free AoO. Karmic Strike reduces your AC by 4, to your attackers for a free AoO. Other than ranged combatants, reducing your AC, and adding to another's attack is effectively the same, but Robilar's Gambit gives your enemies also a +4 to damage.
Kalis Atrud 06-05-07, 08:33 PM	Kharmic Strike requires that the enemy hit you, Robilar's Gambit requires only that they swing at you(you get the attack even if they miss).
Muktar 06-05-07, 08:43 PM	This feat is awesome for the classes that have insane armor class (cleric, monk, paladin) or for the classes that have crap for AC but high hit points (barbarian). If you are in the first group, you probably won't get hit anyways, if you built your char correctly. If you are a barb (or variation thereof), you are gonna get hit anyways and your extra con boost while raging will make up for the fact that you take extra damage. BTW . . .Robilar's Gambit and Frenzied Berserker . . .yummmmm
Lotus Crane 06-06-07, 12:03 AM	This feat is awesome for the classes that have insane armor class (cleric, monk, paladin) or for the classes that have crap for AC but high hit points (barbarian). First of all, monks typically have a lower AC than most other melee classes, because an average monk's Wisdom bonus is almost always lower than the armor+shield, or even just armor, bonus of magic equipment at higher levels. Getting back to the OP's question, Robilar's Gambit is a good feat, but more so for a barbarian or fighter, than for a monk. Monks have fewer HP than barbarians, lower AC than fighters, and deal less damage per hit than either, so they don't get quite the risk-return ratio that the real warriors do.
Majick 06-06-07, 12:46 AM	I posted quite a while back about something i call Robilar's Overpowering Gambit where you use one of the new fighter variant feats from PHB2 - Overpowering Strike (double damage on a hit) combined with Robilar's Gambit (attacks of opportunity from every strike at you). This provides that you make a single attack, do double damage if you hit in your round, then in the enemies turn they all attack you, and as long as you have enough AoO to go around, you get double damage of every attack you make back! Weeeeeeee!
Muktar 06-06-07, 03:01 AM	First of all, monks typically have a lower AC than most other melee classes, because an average monk's Wisdom bonus is almost always lower than the armor+shield, or even just armor, bonus of magic equipment at higher levels. Sorry, that I didn't preface it that is that high lvl monks have more AC than a hvy armor guy. What will usually have more bonuses at high lvls, bracers of armor +wis+dex or fullplate +5(enhancement) +1(dex or +3 if mith)? Bracers of armor goes as high as full plate so they negate. So it comes down to what is usually higher +5 enhancement and +1 (or +3) or full dex + full wis.
Lotus Crane 06-06-07, 04:33 AM	Sorry, that I didn't preface it that is that high lvl monks have more AC than a hvy armor guy. What will usually have more bonuses at high lvls, bracers of armor +wis+dex or fullplate +5(enhancement) +1(dex or +3 if mith)? Bracers of armor goes as high as full plate so they negate. So it comes down to what is usually higher +5 enhancement and +1 (or +3) or full dex + full wis. Right... work on that math a little bit. Suprisingly, it is at lower levels where a monk's AC is still competitive with a fighter's, because nobody can actually afford heavy, let alone magical, armor. At higher and higher levels, a monk has to spend more gold to get less AC than a fighter. Let's be extremely and unfairly extra generous to the monk in this exercise, and give him 18's in both Dex and Wis at 1st level, even though that's practically impossible in standard point buy, actually impossible in elite array, and only possible with a lot of luck in standard rolling. The fighter will have to settle for a Dex of 16 and Wis of 10, but hey, at least this means that if we're using equal ability score generation methods, the fighter's guaranteed to have a higher Str and Con than the monk. At 20th level, PC's are supposed to have roughly 760,000 gp worth of treasure, according to DMG page 135. Let's see what a monk and a fighter might buy with that. A monk could have bracers of armor +8 for 64,000 gp, gloves of dexterity +6 for 36,000 gp, an amulet of natural armor +5 for 50,000 gp, a ring of protection +5 for 50,000 gp, a manual of quickness of action +5 for 137,500 gp, and a tome of understanding +4 for 110,000 gp. This causes him to have an AC of 46 for a hefty 447,500 gp. A fighter could have +5 mithral fullplate of nimbleness for 52,500 gp, a +5 buckler for 25,165 gp, gloves of dexterity +2 for 4,000 gp, an amulet of natural armor +5 for 50,000 gp, and a ring of protection +5 for 50,000 gp. This causes him to have an AC of 47 for a mere 181,665 gp. So the figher has more AC than the monk (and if he chose to use a heavy shield or tower shield instead of a buckler, this gap would be even wider), yet he also has 578,335 gp remaining to spend on weapons and other items, while the monk has far fewer hit points than the fighter, and yet only has 312,500 gp remaining to spend on other items. And to think, if we had used more realistic starting ability scores, the monk's AC would have been even lower.
Squall255 06-06-07, 10:33 AM	A monk could have bracers of armor +8 for 64,000 gp, gloves of dexterity +6 for 36,000 gp, an amulet of natural armor +5 for 50,000 gp, a ring of protection +5 for 50,000 gp, a manual of quickness of action +5 for 137,500 gp, and a tome of understanding +4 for 110,000 gp. This causes him to have an AC of 46 for a hefty 447,500 gp. I would like to point out that this is not the best way o buy for a monk who wants AC. a manual of quickness of action +5 for 137,500 gp, and a tome of understanding +4 for 110,000 gp. These are rediculously expensive, and don't give much payou. and you didn't get a +6 wis item for 36k. There is also the Ioun stone with +1insight to AC IIRC. and I'm sure that there are other things to buy that up AC.
Lotus Crane 06-06-07, 11:43 AM	I would like to point out that this is not the best way o buy for a monk who wants AC. a manual of quickness of action +5 for 137,500 gp, and a tome of understanding +4 for 110,000 gp. These are rediculously expensive, and don't give much payou. and you didn't get a +6 wis item for 36k. There is also the Ioun stone with +1insight to AC IIRC. and I'm sure that there are other things to buy that up AC. At 760,000 gp with maximizing AC as the priority, every little bit helps. Also, keep in mind that a periapt of wisdom +6 occupies the same body slot as an amulet of natural armor +5, so traditionally a monk couldn't have both anyway. As for adding a dusty rose prism ioun stone, keep in mind that this is a moot point because the fighter could get one too, and because he's already spending less gold than the monk, he's more likely to be able to afford one. The monk could go up to 47 AC, but the the fighter would go up to 48 AC, so the monk still has lower AC.
maskimus 06-06-07, 02:06 PM	Don't forget to take Deft Oppertunist. +4 on AoA.;)
Muktar 06-06-07, 03:22 PM	At 760,000 gp with maximizing AC as the priority, every little bit helps. Also, keep in mind that a periapt of wisdom +6 occupies the same body slot as an amulet of natural armor +5, so traditionally a monk couldn't have both anyway. As for adding a dusty rose prism ioun stone, keep in mind that this is a moot point because the fighter could get one too, and because he's already spending less gold than the monk, he's more likely to be able to afford one. The monk could go up to 47 AC, but the the fighter would go up to 48 AC, so the monk still has lower AC. You still haven't answered my question. I didn't ask about anything else. How easy is it to get the monk's main to stats (wis and dex if you didn't know) to be higher than +6 or +8? I used the MiC but even without it, my monk's ac at lvl 18 before I retired him was at 55. Also, you forgot the AC bump that monks get anyways at at the time they can take Robilar's gambit it is +3.
Kyoti00 06-06-07, 04:03 PM	[QUOTE=Muktar;12630294]I used the MiC but even without it, my monk's ac at lvl 18 before I retired him was at 55.QUOTE] How the hell did you get a 55 AC? Because I want to do that :D
Lotus Crane 06-06-07, 05:40 PM	You still haven't answered my question. I didn't ask about anything else. How easy is it to get the monk's main to stats (wis and dex if you didn't know) to be higher than +6 or +8? I used the MiC but even without it, my monk's ac at lvl 18 before I retired him was at 55. Also, you forgot the AC bump that monks get anyways at at the time they can take Robilar's gambit it is +3. I did answer your question, with a detailed breakdown. It's typically possible to get a 34 (or +12 modifier) in an ability score by 20th level, if you start with an 18 and put everything possible into it, which I took into account, even though having two starting 18's is not a realistic prospect in most standard games. 55? Please give us a complete and detailed breakdown of how you achieved that, like I did. An AC higher than 50 should be impossible unless you're ignoring or misinterpreting certain rules. For example, monks can't even take advantage of an animated shield or ring of force shield, so if that's part of how you achieved that, then your monk's AC isn't legal.
tui 06-06-07, 06:05 PM	If you're just trying to boost AC, you can use Combat Expertise and use Defending weapons. That would be possible for both types of characters... not trying to vote one way or the other, just offering suggestions for getting into the 50s. Course Defending weapons may end up favoring the fighter-type more, since it could use a two-handed weapon with armor spikes and still get the Defending bonus. (But then you'd have to change your buckler into an animated shield, but that would mean more AC too.) Improved Combat Expertise might also favor the fighter, since they generally have more BAB to burn..
Sunic_Flames 06-06-07, 06:24 PM	AC maximization: Let's see... 10 base. Dex = 18 + 3 from levels + 6 gloves + 5 tome = 32 = 11 AC. Wis = 18 + 2 from levels + 6 vest* + 4 tome = 30 = 10 AC. Now add 0-4 just for being a monk depending on level. 1 more if a monk's belt is involved. * - Items can be made to go in non associated item slots for 50% higher cost, as per the DMG. It could be anything, as long as it isn't going in a slot taken by something else. AC 36 so far, what else? Bracers will add another 8, a ring of protection 5, an amulet of natural armor 5, that ioun stone 1. 55. Touch AC 13 points lower, not bad. Now, it is also possible by the DMG to make an item anyone can use, that contains a spell usable x times a day. Making this spell Shield, as the Sorc/Wiz spell would add a 4 shield AC bonus as a standard action for 1 minute/caster level. That would make the total 59. And if you really wanted to be a :censored: about it, the same rules could make an item with Alter Self. Now turn into a Lizardfolk or a Troglodyte, for a +6 inherent natural armor (that will therefore stack with the enhancement bonus). 65. I could go higher than this if not pure classed.
DungeonMogrii 06-06-07, 09:04 PM	The natural armor from the amulet does not stack with the natural armor from having a thick and scally skin. Anyway, is that build affordable with the 20th lv gp? And Robillar's Gambit is an awesome feat. Take combat expertise and deft opportunist so that you can take a -4 to hit from the first to negate the AC penalty from Robillar's Gambit and the +4 to hit from Deft Opportunist will make up for the penalty from Combat Expertise. Of course, you would still have a -4 to hit for all normal attaks, but you are meant to know when to and when not to try and exploit your feats.
AAB 06-06-07, 09:16 PM	i thought an amulet of natural armor was an enhancement bonus to natural armor. so it would stack. ?
Einvaldurinn_mikli 06-06-07, 09:18 PM	The natural armor from the amulet does not stack with the natural armor from having a thick and scally skin. Actually it does. One is a "natural" natural armor bonus, the other is an enhancement bonus.
DungeonMogrii 06-07-07, 01:45 AM	I am sure back in 3.0 the bonus was just refered to as 'natural' and not as an enhancement to natural, so it couldn't be stacked with normal natural armor. There was even this one item, I think it was in masters of the wild or svage species which granted an actual increase in natural armor over a monster's natural armor. But the 3.5 SRD says its an enhancement to natural armor, so its just like enhancement to shields and armors now in 3.5 My misstake
Sunic_Flames 06-07-07, 06:32 AM	Item costs? Let's see... 90k total for the enhancement stat items, 247,500 for both tomes, 13k for monks belt, 64k for bracers, 100k for the amulet and ring together, and I forget the cost of the last item. 514,500 + ioun stone. Yes, it is a lot, but when you consider armor using classes still buy some of this stuff and factor in a total of 400k from +10 weapon, armor, and shield it's not so bad. The two skill items, if you follow the math of the DMG example comes out to be 363 gp x spell level x caster level x uses per day. Making Shield 3/day at CL 1st 1,089 gp. Alter Self would be 2,178 per use at minimum CL. Also, a more typical monk not using any tomes and with starting dex/wis of 15/14 would only have 8 AC less, still sufficent to break 50 with one of the buffs. This would also cost about half as much.
Orchomenos 06-07-07, 09:28 AM	A Knight could make wonders with that... With Test of Mettle, every foes would have to attack him, and provoke an AoO doing so... The only problem is Knights usually have abysmal Dexterity scores... The image of a barbarian charging a foe in the back lines, passing through threatened squares and slashing his way with AoO is great too... Question: In which book is this feat?
Sunic_Flames 06-07-07, 10:26 AM	A Knight could make wonders with that... With Test of Mettle, every foes would have to attack him, and provoke an AoO doing so... The only problem is Knights usually have abysmal Dexterity scores... The image of a barbarian charging a foe in the back lines, passing through threatened squares and slashing his way with AoO is great too... Question: In which book is this feat? Either PHB2 or CW, forget which.
tui 06-07-07, 10:57 AM	Question: In which book is this feat? Robilar's Gambit is in PHB2, if that's what you're asking...
Father Dale 06-07-07, 11:39 AM	Like any feat or ability, Robilar's Gambit depends on the rest of the build. I haven't used RG in any games yet, but I have used Karmis Strike to great effect. The character that put it to the most use was a Fighter/Dwarven Defender who had very good Str, Dex, and Con scores. Using Shock Trooper and a two-handed weapon, he would charge taking a full power attack, applying the penalty to AC. This would normally result in an AC of around 8, so he was going to get hit anyways. He had the hitpoints to take a lot of damage. And since his power attack/shock trooper modifiers lasted the entire round, he would get AoOs against those that attacked him with a full power attack without a penalty to the attack role. The results were usually very devestating. It helped immensely that we had a very good healer in the group. :) I like RG best though with miss chances, say from a cloak of displacement. I can think of quite a few high dex, high damage builds that could make use of this tactic. But a straight up tank might not get much use out of it. I would certainly think that a pretty good dex would be a requirement (at least 16), plus combat reflexes. But there are a lot of tricks out there that could work well with RG.
AAB 06-07-07, 11:43 AM	shouldn't you still have had the penalties from power attack going, too?
Father Dale 06-07-07, 11:47 AM	Yup, but due to Shock Trooper the penalty went to AC instead of the attack rolls.
AAB 06-07-07, 12:06 PM	oh, missed that. my mistake.
Squall255 06-07-07, 01:02 PM	yeah, shock trooper is any charger's dream As for Robilar's Gambit, it seems to be pretty balanced, but best used by a char with high dex, and the HP to take the hits. Works very well with barbarian and shock trooper.
pupilofyah 06-07-07, 11:03 PM	This feat is awesome for the classes that have insane armor class (cleric, monk, paladin) or for the classes that have crap for AC but high hit points (barbarian). If you are in the first group, you probably won't get hit anyways, if you built your char correctly. If you are a barb (or variation thereof), you are gonna get hit anyways and your extra con boost while raging will make up for the fact that you take extra damage. BTW . . .Robilar's Gambit and Frenzied Berserker . . .yummmmm monks dont have insane ac. early it is great mid lvls it falls off, later they might catch up when they can afford really good bracers. monks real defence is his speed.
fatal error 06-07-07, 11:06 PM	And for ToB characters to burn up Maneuvers. How would you use a Maneuver on an Attack of Opportunity?
Red_Rabbit 06-08-07, 04:52 AM	i have an epic character that has both Kharmic Strike and Robilar's Gambit Kharmic strike is for guys that can hit me easily Robilar's Gambit is for guys that can bare ever touch me, because they need the extra +4 to hit and dmg to make me worry.
Sunic_Flames 06-08-07, 08:23 AM	monks dont have insane ac. early it is great mid lvls it falls off, later they might catch up when they can afford really good bracers. monks real defence is his speed. *points up* Now if you have one of those DMs that thinks mid 20s AC on a level 10 is high... (Note: Most level 10 enemies have +20 to hit or so, as do martial types in the party.) Monks have the greatest potential for AC in terms of core single classes. Said potential may or may not be realized depending on circumstances, but it's there. Obviously one with Abjurant Champion leanings can trump it, for example.