Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kaldair 08-15-07, 06:27 PM	Can a 4th lvl spellthief (well he'd have to wait until 6th lvl for the feat) take this feat from Complete Scoundrel? He has no 2nd lvl spells of his own, but steal spell says "After stealing a spell, a spellthief can cast the spell himself on a subsequent turn." The prerequisites for Master Spellthief are "Ability to cast 2nd lvl-arcane spells, steal spell." My reasoning is that a 4th lvl spellthief is perfectly capable of stealing and subsequently casting 2nd-lvl arcane spells, so fulfills these requirements, so should be able to take the feat (at his next opportunity to take a feat). Let me know your take on this and how valid my logic is.
BugHunter 08-15-07, 07:58 PM	Can a 4th lvl spellthief (well he'd have to wait until 6th lvl for the feat) take this feat from Complete Scoundrel? He has no 2nd lvl spells of his own, but steal spell says "After stealing a spell, a spellthief can cast the spell himself on a subsequent turn." The prerequisites for Master Spellthief are "Ability to cast 2nd lvl-arcane spells, steal spell." My reasoning is that a 4th lvl spellthief is perfectly capable of stealing and subsequently casting 2nd-lvl arcane spells, so fulfills these requirements, so should be able to take the feat (at his next opportunity to take a feat). Let me know your take on this and how valid my logic is. No you must have the ability to cast 2nd level spells from a standard arcane class. The feat doesn't do you any good if you don't have an arcane casting class.
Kaldair 08-15-07, 11:06 PM	No you must have the ability to cast 2nd level spells from a standard arcane class. The feat doesn't do you any good if you don't have an arcane casting class. Actually, it eliminates arcane spell failure for spells you steal, even if you don't have another arcane spellcasting class to stack levels with. Can you be a bit clearer as to why a 4th lvl spellthief doesn't have the ability you described?
BugHunter 08-15-07, 11:42 PM	Actually, it eliminates arcane spell failure for spells you steal, even if you don't have another arcane spellcasting class to stack levels with. Can you be a bit clearer as to why a 4th lvl spellthief doesn't have the ability you described? They don't get 2nd level spells until 8th level with a CHA of 14 or higher.
ravenshrike 08-16-07, 11:54 AM	If he can steal a 2nd level spell then he can take the feat. Why? Because if he can steal a spell he can cast it. Ergo, at 4th level he has the ability to cast 2nd level spells. Edit - They may not be his OWN spells, but it's still him casting them. He's not casting from a scroll.
Xeorsos 09-25-07, 12:05 AM	If he can steal a 2nd level spell then he can take the feat. Why? Because if he can steal a spell he can cast it. Ergo, at 4th level he has the ability to cast 2nd level spells. Edit - They may not be his OWN spells, but it's still him casting them. He's not casting from a scroll. Poor wording ftw.
jaelis 09-25-07, 11:28 AM	There's always been some ambiguity about this kind of thing. (See the imbue with spell ability spell, for instance.) My own opinion would be that designer probably intended it to be available at 8th level, not 4th.